5. Statement by the First Minister: The Legislative Programme

– in the Senedd at 1:46 pm on 15 July 2020.

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Photo of David Melding David Melding Conservative 1:46, 15 July 2020

Order. Item 5 is a statement by the First Minister on the legislative programme. Mark Drakeford.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour

(Translated)

Temporary Deputy Presiding Officer, Ministers have regularly reported to the Senedd on the impact of coronavirus on our budget, the economy and, primarily, the health of the people of Wales. Today, I will report on our legislative programme, another area where the virus has had a very significant impact.

Members know that we have had to redeploy officials across Government in order to respond to the virus and prepare for recovery. Among those are policy officials, translators, analysts and lawyers. Notwithstanding these unprecedented challenges, we have managed to drive forward scrutiny in a number of important areas. I wish to thank all the Members who have contributed to this constructive scrutiny.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:47, 15 July 2020

Chair, despite more recent challenges, much has been achieved during this last Senedd year. We have abolished the defence of reasonable punishment, banned unfair fees charged by letting agents and implemented a minimum price for alcohol. There will be duties of quality and candour for our health service and a new citizen voice body for health and social care. We have put in place an existing liabilities scheme for our GPs. We have passed an Act that improves the accessibility of our legislation in both Welsh and English. Today, I hope we will confirm our commitment to the welfare of wild animals by outlawing their use in circus performances.

Dirprwy Lywydd, before coronavirus had been identified, to prepare the statute book for exit day on 31 January, we had already made 51 correcting statutory instruments and consented to 158 UK SIs during the autumn. Since then, the Welsh Ministers have made more than 50 items of subordinate legislation dealing with aspects of the pandemic. These relate to both the necessary restrictions to protect public health, and ensuring statutory duties do not prevent our public services from responding to the emergency.

Cadeirydd, at the start of March, we had the most ambitious programme of primary legislation ever to be brought before the Senedd in a final year. For the reasons I have set out, for the remainder of this Senedd term, the Government has had to make some difficult decisions and focus on our very top priorities.

The Local Government and Elections (Wales) Bill will continue its passage in the autumn. This will extend the local government franchise to 16 and 17-year-olds by the next local authority elections. We have introduced the Curriculum and Assessment (Wales) Bill, to enable changes to be in place by 2022—the time frame to which the education sector has been working for some years. We will legislate to improve the position of tenants in the private rented sector through the Renting Homes (Amendment) (Wales) Bill, and scrutiny of that Bill will recommence in the autumn.

But large parts of our primary legislative programme have had to be withdrawn in the face of the pandemic. I very much regret that three major Bills cannot now be pursued to a conclusion during the remainder of this term: the tertiary education and research Bill, the Bus Services (Wales) Bill and the social partnership Bill have all had to be withdrawn from our programme. The tertiary education and research Bill has been published in draft, however, and it will be there for any incoming administration to complete after May of next year. We will take a similar approach to the social partnership Bill, publishing a draft at the start of the next calendar year. 

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:50, 15 July 2020

Dirprwy Lywydd, in terms of primary legislation, other important development work is under way and will be available to the next Government and Senedd. That includes White Papers on clean air and agriculture, and work on reforms to residential leasehold and commonhold. All of that will be published before next year's election. And we continue, formally, to request the UK Government to devolve legislative competence for a vacant land tax, so that a Bill for that purpose can be prepared for Senedd scrutiny. Finally, in terms of primary legislation, the next Government will be under a duty to have a programme of consolidation and codification of its legislation, work for which is under way in the historic environment and planning fields.

Gadeirydd, the crisis has also required a radical recasting of our secondary legislative programme. Priority has been given to measures which respond to the COVID crisis, relate to EU exit and transition, or are essential for legal or other unavoidable reasons, such as to implement a pay award. Now, amongst that list, there are a large number of relatively minor but necessary measures, ranging from miscellaneous amendments to the student finance regime in Wales to seed potato amendment regulations to a new Senedd Cymru letters patent and proclamations Order. All of the above are subject to the negative process, but each one, quite rightly, requires careful drafting and reporting to Members here. 

In the very constrained capacity that remains, we will target our resources on changes that make the biggest impact for our citizens. So, we will therefore go ahead with extending the smoking ban to outdoor areas of hospitals, school grounds and local authority playgrounds, the implementation of the socioeconomic duty and completing the implementation of the new additional learning needs system, as well as ending commercial third-party sales of puppies and kittens.

Dirprwy Lywydd, in some areas where secondary legislation has now had to be postponed, there can be interim measures put in place to make progress on our policy agenda. For example, independent schools will still be encouraged to ensure that their teaching staff register voluntarily with the Education Workforce Council until we are able to make this mandatory. And our aim will be to publish the results so parents can take that into account in making decisions. We will work with our local authority partners on the use of their existing powers to increase 20 mph coverage in Wales. Such interim action is not always an option, and we have very reluctantly concluded that it will not now be possible to complete some planned work, such as home education statutory guidance and database regulations.

Dirprwy Lywydd, this is a slimmed-down programme, but the demands on the Senedd will remain high. A significant body of EU-related legislation will still be required during the autumn of this year. This includes work to implement EU law coming into force during this year, to ensure retained EU law works at the end of the transition period, and to implement new regimes arising from our withdrawal from the European Union. 

Dirprwy Lywydd, even if, as we hope, coronavirus remains under control, it will not have gone away. In these best of circumstances, there will be real challenges in responding to the speed and complexity of Brexit-related legislation in an autumn where the Senedd will still be dealing with health and economic consequences of the pandemic, the annual budget process and the demands of even the slimmed-down legislative programme that I have set out this afternoon. But that is the best of prospects. If the autumn sees a resurgence in coronavirus and an aggressive form of seasonal flu, then managing Brexit legislation alongside everything else will be a challenge of a very different order.

Gadeirydd, I intend to offer all party leaders here, and relevant spokespeople, an opportunity to discuss the options for the autumn as they currently appear to the Government. The Brexit debate itself is over, but there will be a shared ambition, I hope, to see the consequential legislative responsibilities of this Senedd discharged in as orderly and effective a way as circumstances allow. I have set out a non-exhaustive list of the legislative consequences, both primary and secondary, of the public health crisis.

With all the caveats I have set out, the remaining legislative programme has been designed to respond to our current challenges and to deliver for the future, and I commend it this afternoon to the Senedd.

Photo of Paul Davies Paul Davies Conservative 1:55, 15 July 2020

Can I thank the First Minister for his statement this afternoon? This, of course, is the final legislative statement for this Parliament, and so it's a good opportunity to look at the Welsh Government's progress on its legislative programme and also consider the Government's priorities for the remainder of this Parliament.

Now, I appreciate that the COVID-19 pandemic has stretched and reprioritised the Welsh Government's legislative resources in the last few months, but prior to the outbreak there were still areas where the Welsh Government could and should have done more to use its legislative levers to deliver much-needed change for our communities. For example, whilst Wales was the first country in the UK to declare a climate change emergency, there's still a great deal of work that needs to be done in this area, and it's disappointing that the Welsh Government wasn't quicker in bringing forward legislative proposals to deliver a greener Wales for the future. Therefore, can the First Minister point to a single element in any Bill or in any aspect of this legislative programme that actually deals with the climate emergency that his Government declared in February 2019?

Llywydd dros dro, can I take this opportunity to thank the First Minister for his invitation to discuss the options for the autumn, as they currently appear to us, and I'm pleased to be able to respond positively to that request? Now, today's statement confirms that large parts of the Welsh Government's primary legislative programme has had to be withdrawn in the face of the COVID-19 pandemic, and as a result, the tertiary education and research Bill, the bus services Bill and the social partnership Bill have all been withdrawn. So, perhaps the First Minister could tell us a little bit more about the interim measures that the Welsh Government is bringing forward in relation to those three Bills that were initially planned for this term.

Of course, we have seen some significant legislation passed through this Parliament, and today's statement highlights a few of those Acts, and indeed the statutory instruments as well. For example, the Regulation of Registered Social Landlords (Wales) Act 2018 and the Renting Homes (Fees etc.) (Wales) Act 2019—both have resulted in changes for landlords and others in the property sector here in Wales. And yet, we're still waiting for further information regarding Bills, such as the proposed clean air Bill, which, given the narrative that the Welsh Government has developed in relation to air pollution and climate change, is a missed opportunity to make a real difference to people's lives. Today's statement refers to the White paper on clean air and agriculture, and perhaps the First Minister can tell us a bit more about the reason why these Bills were not prioritised, given the serious impact that they would have on people's lives.

Now, legislation doesn't have to always come from the Government—the Commission has brought forward legislation, and I, myself, had the opportunity to test the Senedd's legislative processes with my own proposals. Of course, it's hugely disappointing that the Senedd could not pass the proposed autism Bill, and it's also disappointing that my long-standing campaign for war memorials legislation continues to be ignored, and I can point to examples from several other Members in this Chamber, all with credible legislative ideas, that this Government simply chooses to ignore. And therefore I hope that the First Minister will commit to work constructively with others on legislative proposals in the future, so that this institution can explore all legislative opportunities to change Wales for the better.

And more generally, in response to the COVID-19 pandemic, could the First Minister also tell us what new legislative opportunities have been found, so that we can work together to deliver legislation in the little time we have left in this Parliament to ensure Wales is as prepared as possible for any future outbreaks?

Llywydd dros dro, the Welsh Government has previously identified a few Bills that may now be considered in the next parliamentary term, such as the infrastructure consenting Bill, the social partnership Bill, the Wales agriculture Bill and the taxes Bill, to name a few. Of course, it's crucial that any legislative proposals are appropriately costed to ensure that there are sufficient resources available, and so perhaps the First Minister could confirm, in each of these cases, what immediate discussions has he had with his Cabinet colleagues about the implications of not implementing these specific Bills in this parliamentary term?

As we look back on this parliamentary term, it's important to consider how legislation that has been passed has been revisited and scrutinised in subsequent years to ensure its effectiveness. Lessons can always be learned, and effective post-legislative scrutiny is part of that learning process. So, I hope the First Minister will tell us candidly what lessons he has learned from this parliamentary term.

In closing, acting Presiding Officer, the Welsh Government's legislative programme is its language of choice, and whilst this parliamentary term has been a challenging one, it remains the case that the Welsh Government has not used its legislative tools to address climate change, boost employment or tackle some of the big problems facing communities here in Wales. Nevertheless, we have less than 12 months left until the end of this Parliament, and my colleagues and I will work constructively wherever we can to scrutinise and indeed to strengthen the Welsh Government's legislation, to ensure that its Bills deliver value for money and deliver significant improvements to people's lives across Wales. Thank you. 

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:00, 15 July 2020

Well, as far as climate change is concerned, as Paul Davies said, there will be a clean air plan published at the start of August. It will lead to a White Paper on clean air during the rest of this Senedd term, and that will prepare the position for legislation early in the next Senedd term, provided there is a Government that wishes to make that a priority.

We will bring forward agricultural pollution regulations as secondary legislation during this Senedd term. I look forward to the Member's support for those regulations, given that one of the features of coronavirus has been an increase in episodes of agricultural pollution while there have been fewer eyes around. So, some actions have been taken that, I think, are regrettable to say the least.

We will also bring forward an environmental principles legislation during the next Assembly term, if we're in a position to do that. I'm glad to say that we've had some successful negotiations with the UK Government recently in relation to the legislation they are promoting, to make sure that it properly respects devolution. Before the end of this term, we will put in place interim measures and an interim independent assessor to deal with complaints in the environmental principles field and an expert group that will help us to oversee that. I'm grateful to all those who've worked very constructively with us to put those interim measures in place.

The Member asked about the three Bills we've not now been able to take forward. Well, on the tertiary education research Bill, the fact that the Bill is published and is published in draft will now offer those stakeholders who had been anxious about their own ability to participate in scrutiny of the full Bill, had we been able to proceed with it, given that they all too are affected by coronavirus, to have people not in work, to have people taken away to other priorities—they will now be able to scrutinise that Bill in draft. We will have consultations and discussions with them. If there are improvements to the Bill that can be made in its drafting, then we will bring those forward in any final Bill the other side of the election.

As far as the buses Bill is concerned, it's a real loss, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm very disappointed we're not able to proceed with it. The Welsh public deserve a position in which the major investment that is made on their behalf in buses provides a greater return on that investment, but we will pursue it in other ways. Our bus emergency payment arrangements, which we published just a week or so ago, will lead to a fresh set of discussions with the sector about how the investment the public make can lead to a more systematic planned series of services, greater integration between modes of transport, shared ticketing arrangements, and a series of other goals that we would have pursued through the Bill but will now pursue through those financial and administrative measures. 

As far as the social partnership Bill is concerned, well, we have pressed ahead with our social partnership arrangements. We have a social partnership council that is meeting—it meets every fortnight. It's focused very much on coronavirus at present, but is doing the essential work that social partnership provides here in Wales. And the draft Bill that we will publish, which will have procurement as an important strand in it, will show how we will be able to take that forward.

I don't think the Government can fairly be accused of not being prepared to work constructively with others where others bring forward proposals which the Government believes to be worth supporting. I worked very closely with the opposition Member who was responsible for the nurse staffing Bill when that was brought forward in the previous Assembly term. I worked closely with the Finance Committee when I was the finance Minister in relation to the committee Bill that the Finance Committee brought forward on ombudsman reform. And I think where there are Bills we can support, of course we will work constructively on them. That will not be the case every time, because not every Bill that is brought forward by a private Member can command support from the Government. As far as financial matters are concerned, then, of course, any Bill has to have a financial resolution moved—well, on almost every occasion—and a memorandum published alongside it that demonstrates how the costs have been calculated and are to be met. Again, when I was finance Minister, we worked closely with the Finance Committee on a series of proposals that the committee brought forward to improve the underpinning financial information that the Government can provide, and I hope that Members will agree that that has improved the information provided to Members as part of their scrutiny.

Finally, Mr Davies asked me what lessons I thought we could draw from the term. I'll just end with this one, Dirprwy Lywydd, and it's one I've learned not just in this term, but throughout, that there is no Bill that is not improved by the process of scrutiny. And that's why the work that goes on in committee and on the floor of the Senedd is so important, and that's the spirit in which the Government sets out on bringing Bills to the floor. Bills are there to be improved, and when it is possible for the work of committees or amendments that are put forward to make the Bill better Bill, that is what we aim to do, and I think that lesson has been well borne out in the Bills that have passed through this Senedd and onto the statute book in this term.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you—Deputy Minister?

Photo of David Melding David Melding Conservative

I think 'acting' is probably as high as I should go.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Acting Presiding Officer—you've had three titles already this afternoon.

First Minister, this will be your final legislative statement in this Senedd. I'm grateful for you having shared a copy with us and for the opportunity to have further discussions with you during the autumn. Now, even before COVID struck, our assessment of the Bills that you as a Government decided to bring forward was mixed to say the least, if truth be told. Now, even the legislation that you will press ahead with, despite the crisis, such as the reforms to the renting homes Act—the content rows back on the commitments that you and your party made in the case of no-fault erections, for example, where you amend the legislation to extend the notice period from two months to six months, rather than abolish the practice entirely. This will not give the assurances that those people who rent homes would need.

Over the period of this Senedd, Plaid Cymru has pressed for legislation to spread wealth equally across the whole of Wales, legislation to look at biodiversity and wildlife, and we used parliamentary opportunity to the greatest extent to take advantage of the legislative timetable in this place, with Dr Dai Lloyd, for example, proposing a Bill to safeguard Welsh place names, which has, by now, had some support from the backbenches of your party.

And in terms of the last of these themes, I have to note that we do have some real concerns about the Government's engagement with legislation in terms of the Welsh language. Now, focus was lost over 18 months and more, following your Government's decision to do away with the Welsh language Measure and the role of the commissioner. Now, we're in a fight again on the role of the language in the curriculum. The Government seems determined to use its legislative powers to actually go against the objectives that we all want to see, rather than facilitate them.

Of course, we're facing two crises now: Brexit and COVID. The European Commission and the European Court are playing a key role in environmental governance, and we will need to ensure that this is transferred into Welsh law as we leave these systems. There is no legislation yet to close that environmental gap that will exist at the end of December. Now, you did make a vague reference to this in your statement. Can you confirm when we will see that legislation in terms of putting arrangements in place to safeguard environmental governance in Welsh law?

I was pleased to hear that legislation responding to the COVID crisis will be prioritised. One specific issue that's been raised by Delyth Jewell and Helen Mary Jones—will you look in earnest at the need for emergency legislation in terms of licensing and planning to support businesses in hospitality or to support local authorities to support them to operate on pavements and streets in town centres, for example?

The Government accepted in the context of COVID grants for small businesses the need to provide particular protection in guidance to avoid the abuse of the support that is for real self-catering businesses. So, what are your plans to strengthen primary legislation so that the owners of second homes pay tax, and can't take advantage of support for small businesses where that is not appropriate?

May I also urge you, First Minister, despite the challenges related to Brexit and COVID and other matters, including, of course, seed potatoes regulations—those also have to be dealt with—to take the opportunities in the next few months to create a real legacy for the future, so that we can all be proud of the legislation of the fifth Assembly, which became a fifth Senedd, despite all the challenges?

Can we agree this afternoon, for example, that Welsh history in all its diversity, including black, Asian and minority ethnic history, must be statutory and at the core of the new curriculum? Can we also agree today that we mustn't waste time reopening the wounds of the past and drop the contentious clause on the English language in the new curriculum Bill, focusing rather on ensuring that the curriculum is a framework to deliver the fluency of all our citizens in Welsh? And can we agree that Stage 2 of the local government Bill will be used to create a huge leap forward in terms of equality, diversity and representation in our local authorities, through STV in every council, job sharing and positive discrimination? 

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:12, 15 July 2020

(Translated)

Acting Deputy Llywydd, may I thank Adam Price for those questions? A number of those will be coming before the Senedd in the legislation that we will bring forward. And so, as regards the renting homes Bill, which will be coming before the Senedd in the autumn, there will be an opportunity for people to see what's in the Bill, and, if there are amendments that people wish to raise, then, of course, there will be an opportunity for the Senedd to consider those amendments. 

As regards the Welsh language, the Minister for Education has already stated that she is open to listening to the points that people raise during Stage 2 to see whether it's possible to have discussions between the parties to be able to resolve some of the concerns that some people see in the curriculum. And so she wants to do that in a constructive manner, and I'm sure that she will receive a constructive response. 

In the environmental field, we will proceed with the Bill—not in this term, but we will prepare the way for the future. As I said when I responded to Paul Davies, we have agreed amendments to the Bill in Westminster to reflect devolution and the responsibilities that we hold here. In the interim, we will put steps in place; to be clear with people in the field in Wales, they will have an independent means of raising any concerns they may have, and, in case coronavirus has been a very difficult issue, we have proceeded with a group that has been convened, and we are almost ready with the pro forma and the practicalities to assist them. As I said, we wish to appoint an independent assessor, and we also have a panel of specialist experts ready to be appointed. So, these are just interim measures to fill the gaps before we can bring forward—well, whoever will be in Government will be able to return, after May, with a new Bill in the new context that we will face post Brexit.

On on-street hospitality, I believe that we have found another way forward without bringing a Bill to the floor of the Senedd, but we are still working with the local authorities on that.

We have changed the situation as regards people purchasing homes as second homes and then making them into small businesses to avoid paying the rates, or the taxes, allegedly. So, we have revamped the rules and regulations to assist in that regard.

As regards the history of Wales, and the history of black people in Wales, the Minister has established a group to assist us to draw together resources within the curriculum and to prepare to train people to be clear about how we wish them to approach the teaching of the history of black people in Wales. It's one thing to talk about it; it's another thing to secure the resources to promote the skills of the people who do that work.

In Stage 2 of the Bill on local government I'm sure there will be an opportunity to discuss STV once again on the floor here. Our policy is one of permissive PR, to give those local authorities that want to use the system the opportunity to do so, but we won't make it compulsory.

Photo of Mark Reckless Mark Reckless Conservative

Thank you, sir—a pleasure to speak under your chairmanship, David Melding. First Minister, thank you for your statement. Thank you very, very much for stating that the Brexit debate is over, but it's very important to bring what is necessary onto the statue book in an orderly and effective manner. I strongly agree, and I think there was an apparent invitation to support or at least be consulted about that, and certainly that's something I'd be very happy to do, and was pleased with what you said on that aspect.

Could I also say, on that, that I'm often criticising you and sometimes others for legislating differently in Wales for the sake of it, as I put it? I think it's incumbent on me to recognise, in this particular area, that that hasn't happened in terms of almost all of what you've done with the EU exit legislation. You referenced the 51 Welsh statutory instruments we've made, and I think 158 to which we've given UK consent, and I have been impressed by the pragmatic and sensible approach that's generally been taken in this area. I think it's partly pressure of work and not wanting to redo all of that, but also, I think, a sensible approach. Mick Antoniw and his committee have worked very, very hard on this, and I'd like to put on record my thanks to them.

You said on the curriculum Bill that it was to enable changes to be in place in 2022. Are you, as a Government, ruling out pushing back that deadline? Is it still possible there may be a change to that, or are you setting your face against it? To bring this forward I think is important, because in some ways I find it quite a difficult Bill. I've been rereading some of the debates about the 1988 Act and the curriculum then, and, interestingly, it was Margaret Thatcher who was trying to keep discretion for teachers and limit the extent to which the Bill was prescriptive, and many in the Department for Education who were wanting to go the other way, and the outcome was a compromise. But they were specifying particular things that had to happen in areas at the time in the curriculum, whereas the approach here is a much more general one, and concepts that are much harder to pin down into legislative language that will bite. I do just think it is quite difficult for teachers and schools to look at that legislation and then practically how is that legislation going to bind them. I know most of this will happen through guidance and them being helped through it, but, if anyone actually breaks the law, how will you know and what will the enforcement ever be for that?

COVID-19 has affected huge numbers of people in absolutely extraordinary ways that have made such difference to people's lives, but I think also it's made a significant difference to Welsh Government. Of course, I understand you redeploying civil servants elsewhere, and some legislation now can't get through. I asked earlier only for the same understanding to be extended to the UK Government, but I certainly extend it to your Government. But also you had a period of legislative time and could quite properly be expected to bring these Bills in. Now, you will not be able to, and that—for you and for your Government with the majority you have—is a loss, and I think we need to empathise with that. 

Ken Skates, and the Bill he's been doing particularly on bus services I think is unfortunate—I'm not sure whether or not I agree with the overall approach, but I've been engaging with it, and certainly he has worked very hard with the committee in developing it with scrutiny. And now it seems, unlike the other Bills that are published in draft and may be taken up in the next Assembly, depending on the results of the election, this one seems to be being lost. A few aspects of it you're able to do in other ways, but what about some of those other principles? Do you expect them to come back, or is the uncertainty for bus services because of what's happened with COVID is so great that it's just not possible to say for now?

I was struck, talking to Lord Thomas about the justice commission, by the emphasis he put on the Renting Homes (Wales) Bill and commencing that Bill from 2016 and the huge practical on-the-ground difference that will make for many people in Wales. Often, when we talk about legislating differently, it may have an effect at margin for a few people; this will have a huge impact for so many people, and I just support what the First Minister says on the importance of the scrutiny in getting this right, particularly when you're amending a Bill, a complex Bill, before it has even been commenced. 

You mentioned there was other important development work that is under way, including work on reforms to residential leasehold and commonhold. I'm aware of a very substantial programme of work from the Law Commission in this area. I wasn't clear if you were referring to that or whether there's a separate programme of work under way in Welsh Government. The Law Commission work has a small section early on about Welsh devolution and some ambiguity and uncertainty about the extent of devolution, given the cross-cutting themes of their work, but the pragmatic assumption that seemed to run through it was it would be done on an England-and-Wales basis. Do you expect that you would want to recommend consent to much of their work programme? Do you know more about it than has been published, or are you looking to develop a Wales-only approach in this extraordinarily complex area?

Two other areas you mentioned I think were going to be done by statutory instrument. Third-party puppy sales: I know a number of members of my group will be very pleased to hear that you're taking further action on that. And also, in terms of the banning of smoking, there had been some suggestion it was going to be a far wider measure, but, to the extent that you've mentioned hospital grounds, school grounds and local authority play areas, certainly I personally have no objection to those areas being included, and am pleased that it's not a wider programme. 

Finally, can I just refer to land transaction tax? We spoke at length as the Bill was going through about potential different models of scrutiny, and I was arguing that the rate should be on the face of the Bill and you were strongly against that, but you proffered a number of other mechanisms of scrutiny that would substitute for that. Do you agree it's sort of unsatisfactory that this was announced at a press conference by the finance Minister yesterday, isn't being considered even as a statement today, and we then have the two months of recess? Okay, you've lifted the threshold, but there are also some quite complex legislative options about how you may do that in terms of the second homes and not carrying through the exemption to that category. I can think of a number of different ways in which that might be done, and I'm just unclear how the Government is using the legislation to attain its goal. It really would have been more satisfactory if we had had a proper debate and discussion about that here. 

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:23, 15 July 2020

I thank the Member for those questions. I'll come back at the end, if I may, Dirprwy Lywydd dros dro, to the points about EU legislation, because I just think there's some important information that I can provide to the Senedd.

Can I agree with what the Member said about Mick Antoniw's committee and the very hard work that they have carried out in that area? In relation to the implementation of the curriculum scheduled for September 2022, I was in Ysgol Llanhari yesterday speaking to the head there. I think her view was that they very much wish to ensure the curriculum is implemented in September 2022. They're very keen not to lose the momentum, the enormous amount of work that they have put into preparing for the new freedoms that the new curriculum will provide to them. 

I recognise the point that the Member makes that there are sometimes individuals who call for more freedom, and then, when offered it, turn out not quite to know what it is that they're going to do with it and want to be told what they ought to do with the freedoms that they've got. But I don't think that that is true of the education sector in Wales; I think they've worked very hard, they want to do it and we want it to happen. Can I rule out categorically the possibility that we may have to delay it? Well, given what we know about the coming winter, if everything were to be adverse and the impact that that would have on schools and teachers as well as everybody else, we have to be pragmatic enough to say we'll keep it under review, but our ambition remains the same: we want to see it in for September 2022, and I think that the sector wants to see that as well.

I share the Member's disappointment at the Bus Services (Wales) Bill's withdrawal. We agonised long and hard about it, but in the end, it simply wasn't possible to corral together the policy and the legislative input that would be needed for it, given everything else that is happening. One of the reasons why we're not publishing it in draft, as the others, is that we want to return to the taxis element of the original Bill, which the Member will remember was a Bill that was going to encompass both aspects. I hope to return to that if there's an opportunity to do so.

Commencing the 2016 Act does depend upon us passing the Renting Homes (Amendment) (Wales) Bill. The 2016 Act is a major Act of this Senedd, with really profound reforms for people who rent their homes. It's why, when choices had to be made—and the bus Bill and the other Bills we're not able to take forward were in the mix—this Bill was the one that we had decided to come forward with because of its impact on being able to commence the 2016 legislation.

As far as leasehold reform is concerned, my understanding is that the Law Commission will publish its final recommendations on 21 July. I couldn't agree more with the Member about the fiendishly complicated nature of leasehold and reform, and I don't claim at all to have a full grasp of it. We are waiting to see the final recommendations of the Law Commission and they will have a shaping influence on our ability to bring forward reform in that area.

I'm grateful for the Member's support for the use of secondary legislation in relation to third-party puppy sales.

Personally, I wish we could have gone further with the smoking ban legislation in this Senedd term; we can't now do that. It's interesting, reading reports overnight, that there are people who are now experiencing outdoor hospitality where smoking is allowed, and calls for smoking to be banned now in those places. Because people are so used to smoke-free environments indoors, finding yourself having to put up with people's smoke out of doors is not a pleasant experience, and people understand why it's important to take action there. Sadly, we won't be able to do that in this term. We'll prepare ahead.

And finally, on LTT, well, we're using the provisional affirmative; it's the procedure that this Senedd endorsed. It has its limitations, as the Member has said. It's part of why my colleague Rebecca Evans will be talking very soon about the possibility of a taxes Bill that we will be able to bring forward in order to discharge these responsibilities in a different way. But, in the circumstances, with the time that we had, given the announcement in England last week, we thought it was important to come forward with specific proposals and that's what we have now done.

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 2:28, 15 July 2020

First Minister, I'm grateful to you for the statement this afternoon and, like you, I share the disappointment that we're not going to be able to move forward with a Bill to reregulate bus services. Deregulation, of course, was a Thatcherite disaster that is continuing to wreck our services, especially in places like my constituency where we spend the money, but we don't get the services we require. I think we all want to see buses being reregulated to ensure that we do have the services that we require.

First Minister, there are a number of different areas where I believe we could benefit from additional legislation. I've been considering environmental legislation, the protection of our ecology and fragile environments. The First Minister will remember that I put forward proposals to create a new national park in Wales, in the Valleys, and I think it is important that we look again at how we regulate and designate our national parks. There are, of course, other parts of the country that would benefit from the designation of a national park. I remember the campaign for a Cambrian mountains national park in Ceredigion and Carmarthenshire as well, and there are other parts of the country.

Could we also consider a clean Wales Act? The First Minister's referred to a clean air Act, and I fully support that proposal, but he will be aware of the littering we're seeing in our communities and the great distress that is caused to people, in different parts of the country, by fly-tipping. I've seen fly-tipping increase over recent years in my own constituency, where our beautiful hillsides and mountains are used to dump waste. It is already illegal, but we need to be able to ensure that we can increase the penalties and make more robust law to protect our communities from that.

It would also be useful to see a deposit-return scheme introduced in Wales. I remember when Corona was pop, returning my bottle in order to get my penny to buy some more pop, and I think it would be something we would like to see the return of.

And finally, First Minister, can I speak on a more personal note? Members will be aware, and I'm obviously very grateful to Members for their kind words and sympathy, but I suffered a cardiac event some months ago. I was very, very lucky that I was with somebody who understood CPR and was able to find a defibrillator within minutes. When my heart stopped beating, there was somebody there who could help me and save my life. The provision of defibrillators, the provision of training in basic resuscitation, together with a statutory path of survival, planning for all public service bodies and health authorities to work together, with the general public, to ensure that everybody has the same opportunity for life that I was given. And when I was speaking to the people who had saved my life some months ago, they were very clear that it was members of the public who were there when my heart stopped beating that gave the ambulance crew and the surgeons in the Heath hospital the opportunity to give me a second breath of life. So, it is the public and it is our professionals working together with a path of survival, together with the materials, the opportunities and the training, to enable everybody to have that chance of life.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:32, 15 July 2020

I will thank Alun Davies very much for that. I agree with him that the deregulation of the buses has been a 30-year disaster, and we see that in Wales, which is why our Bill to reregulate the bus services was such an important one. I do want to be clear with Members that we are working on alternative ways of achieving the same objectives. Even though the method, the legislative route, is not available to us in this Senedd term, it doesn't mean that there are not other powerful levers that Government can use, and we will be using those, particularly in the current context, where bus providers are so heavily dependent upon public subsidy to provide a service of any sort.

I thank him for what he said about environmental legislation. I sometimes have anxieties about environmental legislation, that the burden of it is carried by the poorest, that when we demand higher standards and we require other things, it's people with the least ability who have to find a way of bearing that burden. But there is no excuse for littering; there is no excuse for fly-tipping. Nobody needs to do those things, and poverty doesn't come into it, whereas it does in lots of other things. So, I am with him myself. I regularly bore people who I am travelling with, as we go along the routes in and out of Wales, at the sight of litter on our roadsides and on the sides of our train tracks. What sort of message does it send to people who are coming to visit this beautiful place about the way some of those locations are treated? So, legislation to do more and do better through a clean Wales Bill, he's made a powerful case for that.

And, of course, the Member makes a case for cardiac legislation with an authority that I certainly couldn't muster, and Members here, I know, will have listened very carefully to what he has said on that. As everybody in this place will be thinking ahead to ideas they want to put to the public next year, I think some very powerful points have been made by the Member this afternoon.

Photo of Mick Antoniw Mick Antoniw Labour 2:34, 15 July 2020

First Minister, firstly, can I thank you for your statement? Can I also thank, and put my own name on record as thanking, really, all those Welsh Government lawyers in respect of the considerable amount of legislation that they've had to work on? I think it's difficult for people to perhaps appreciate the scale of legislation that has been developed and the skills that go along with that. And equally so because my committee is one that assesses and reviews the probity of a lot of the legislation as it goes through, and scrutinises, and we know that within the pressure, from time to time, mistakes are made, so also the skill and expertise of the Senedd lawyers, who back the committee and identify those, and then the positive relationship that exists in ensuring that we have some of the best and most effective legislation that goes through. Certainly, in our 10 years as a Parliament, as a legislature, we have developed the skill at developing effective and well-drafted legislation. We obviously have more to learn, but it has been a very productive 10 years.

Can I say, first of all, in respect of the comments you made in respect of legislation on residential leasehold and commonhold, there will be whoops of joy going up in my constituency at the possibility that we will legislate to ban the scourge of leasehold properties for the future? Many leasehold issues are, of course, matters that are reserved, so what the Law Commission comes up with will obviously be of importance to us. But there is another aspect to this that it is important that we develop as well, and that is in respect of the management companies, the amount of ancillary property around developments that are also put out to management companies. This may well be something that we could actually stop through the planning process without legislation, but I think it goes hand in hand that, on the one hand, those who purchased leasehold properties end up having to pay leasehold payments, but also then that, often, many of the facilities around and the land around are also subject to further charges that blight the properties, and we would want to see an end to that.

Can I say in respect of the social partnership Bill that I fully understand the delays there and what is important is that we have legislation that is effective? This is legislation that is going to become so important, groundbreaking in the UK, in respect of the post-COVID environment that we live in, where we're looking, really, at the way we use our procurement to establish ethical standards, that we recalibrate the values in terms of some of our employment and social relationships that we actually have. I know from the trade union side that, although there was a hope that this legislation would be on the books before the elections, the preference certainly is to have effective and rigorous legislation prepared for the next Assembly.

I'm very pleased also at the work that is going on with regard to the implementation of section 1 of the Equality Act 2010. This will enable Government to set guidelines in terms of socioeconomic duty. It is legislation that will be very important in respect of women workers, in terms of the equality, the gender pay gap and the general gender discrimination that exists within many of our workplaces and parts of our society. Perhaps you could comment on the issue of guidelines that would need to go along with this in order to implement and make effective this legislation.

The other area, of course, that is very important is the codification of law and access to law and access to justice. I do hope, in terms of one area, that what we do—

Photo of David Melding David Melding Conservative 2:39, 15 July 2020

Have I got override on this? Mick, people will think you're putting in an application for his job if you go on any longer. You've been over four minutes. Last sentence.

Photo of Mick Antoniw Mick Antoniw Labour

I'll finish. My last sentence is how pleased we all are about the commitment in respect of implementation of Lucy's law. Thank you.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour

Gadeirydd, thank you very much, and thank you to Mick. Mick Antoniw began by pointing to the astonishing demands that have been made on Government lawyers in the COVID context. Over 60 items of subordinate legislation have been made by Welsh Ministers since early February. Members here will expect, of course, that those powers have been used in relation to the health and social care systems, but they've also had to deal with planning, business tenancies, carrier bag charges, bathing water, education and local government. It's been an enormous effort, and the scrutiny provided through Mick Antoniw's committee, with the help of lawyers on the Commission side, has been invaluable given the speed at which all of this has had to be done.

I look forward, too, to leasehold and commonhold reform. We've already, in this Senedd term, Dirprwy Lywydd dros dro, made a decision that no Help to Buy properties can be leasehold if they're to get support through the Welsh Government, and the management company issues affect freehold sales as well as leasehold sales. I can see that there are other Members around the Chamber here who've had to deal with the results of people having bought a house finding themselves caught up in management fees for freehold properties over which they appear to have very little control or redress.

On the social partnership Bill, I'm grateful to trade union colleagues for their understanding about why we're not able to proceed with it, and I've said to my officials that I want us to use this period to make it an even more effective and important Bill when we're able to publish it in draft. The socioeconomic duty has survived some very tough meetings where we have had to cull our secondary legislative programme to the bone, but the Minister responsible for it is Deputy Minister Jane Hutt, and I can tell you that the tenacity with which Jane has ensured that that piece of secondary legislation remains alive has been everything you would have expected of her.

I referred to codification in my opening statement. Dirprwy Lywydd, we have moved ahead with codification in relation to the historic environment and in the field of planning, and the next Government, of whatever colour, will be under an obligation passed by this Senedd to come forward with further codification and consolidation measures.

Photo of David Melding David Melding Conservative 2:41, 15 July 2020

And the final speaker on this, Jenny Rathbone.

Photo of Jenny Rathbone Jenny Rathbone Labour 2:42, 15 July 2020

Thank you, First Minister. I share the concerns about our inability to go ahead with the bus Bill, but I'm reassured that you think you've got other ways of protecting this sector, because in particular in Cardiff, where we're fortunate to have a publicly owned Cardiff Bus, they are constantly facing unfair competition from private, so-called commercial operators who have managed to cherry pick the most profitable routes while ignoring the socially important routes. Equally, Cardiff Bus hasn't been able to access the economic resilience emergency fund, even though it obviously has been able to get hold of the support of the COVID job retention scheme. But, nevertheless, they've lost over £600,000 in the last three months, ensuring that essential workers were still able to get to their jobs, and I would be interested to know a little bit more about how we plan to safeguard these essential services, going forward, if we can't legislate.

One thing that you mentioned in your statement was the seed potatoes amendment regulation. It sounds marginal, but I wondered what relationship it has to the post-Brexit regulations the UK Government is preparing, where commercial seed operators are very concerned that they may have to pay £300 per variety in order to be able to continue to sell their seeds in Wales or, indeed, across the UK. That is obviously a very anti-competitive measure that could hugely benefit the very large conglomerate companies and put a lot of small vegetable seed companies out of business. So, I wondered if there is any link between those two.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:44, 15 July 2020

Our Bill would have reversed the position, Chair, brought in under the original Thatcher Government legislation, which has prevented other municipal bus company formation in Wales. The Bill allowed those places that had existing municipal bus companies to continue with them, and Cardiff and Newport have continued for 30 years in that way, but it's prevented us from being able to use similar possibilities elsewhere in Wales, and our Bill would have reversed that position. We are working with Transport for Wales to find alternative ways in which we can bring ownership of bus services back under the control of those parts of the public service that essentially pay for them, and to do so in a way that is planned, where we don't have the sort of competition—wasteful competition—that Jenny Rathbone referred to, where the ability of a company like Cardiff Bus to support less profitable routes is damaged by the fact that the only competition they face is on routes where profits are to be made. Discussions between the bus company and the Welsh Government are ongoing.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I began to regret choosing the seed potato amendment Order as the one that I highlighted, given that the Member clearly knows so much more about it than I do. [Laughter.] I don't believe that our amendment is linked to the disturbing changes that she referred to across our border. I think it is one of those annual regulations that have to come in front of the Senedd through the negative procedure. But, the general point the Member makes is one I entirely agree with—that we will need to use our environmental legislation to make sure that the standards that matter so much here in Wales, and the protections that are afforded to Welsh consumers as a result, are preserved as we go into a more difficult period ahead.