Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

3. Questions to the Minister for Education – in the Senedd at 3:33 pm on 10 February 2021.

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Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 3:33, 10 February 2021

Thank you. We now turn to spokespeople's questions, and the first this afternoon is Conservative spokesperson, Suzy Davies.

Photo of Suzy Davies Suzy Davies Conservative

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Afternoon, Minister. We were all very relieved, of course, to hear you announce that primary schools will be open for face-to-face learning for foundation phase pupils after half term. However, with just three days to go until half term, we've seen the publication overnight of the guidance that schools have been clamouring for for some days now. Only this morning, actually, parents in one part of Wales received notice that their school would not reopen as anticipated because they hadn't had the guidance on how to carry out risk assessments, so I hope they're going to manage to catch up. 

You know that the teaching unions are very reluctant to see their members return without additional measures to make these safe spaces even safer, whatever the views of individual heads. So, I wonder if you could just summarise us for us the new steps, and tell us how you'll be getting the money or materials to the schools in time for them to implement, and maybe just tell us how you've informed schools, as it's clear from today that some of them still don't know. Thank you. 

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 3:34, 10 February 2021

Thank you, Suzy. The guidance was shared with our trade union partners on Friday of last week, and we have been working with them in the meantime to ensure that the guidance meets their satisfactions, and to work with them rather than issuing guidance and then only having to retract it as a result of comments that are made by the profession. I have been very keen to release that guidance as quickly as possible, and we have advertised across Welsh-medium channels this morning the availability of the guidance. 

Can I just stress though that what headteachers and school staff successfully did in the autumn term, to make their establishments as COVID secure as possible, remains the same? We know what works in terms of hand washing, ventilation and social distancing, as far as that is possible, especially with older children. But you are right, we are placing additional measures in place, including £5 million of investment for high-quality face coverings, which will be the same and distributed across Wales, as well as lateral flow testing. Lateral flow testing kits have been given to special schools this week, and lateral flow testing for those returning to school on 22 February will be in school for the start of that return.

Photo of Suzy Davies Suzy Davies Conservative 3:35, 10 February 2021

Thank you for that. And I'm taking it from that as well that the trade unions are satisfied with the steps that are now in place, certainly for the foundation phase years. I'm hoping that they'll feel the same for secondary schools as well, because, as we know, Welsh Government's position at the moment is that it's pressures on the NHS that determines which parts of our society are released and when. But its position also is that schools—and that's in the round—should be the beneficiaries of any headroom in the drop in infection rates, which, I think, sounds like a commitment to open the secondary schools and colleges next, rather than starting to open up bits of the economy.

You mentioned that schools have now been contacted with high-level guidance for assessment in those exam years, which allows, and I'm quoting here,

'relatively few pieces of clear evidence would be sufficient to demonstrate attainment across overarching key themes for many qualifications.'

It's what you said to David Melding. And although that high-level guidance warns against awarding grades on a learner's potential, as opposed to their actual achievements, I think the temptation is still going to be there, isn't it, in the absence of a body of gradable work? So, I'm wondering if you can confirm that Welsh Government will be using any new headroom—supported by the twice-weekly testing of staff—to allow maximum face-to-face learning for those years, to help them not just to catch up if they're digitally disadvantaged, but in order to build up a body of gradable work, assessed in controlled conditions. And if you can say that, can you also say whether you've given some thought to, I don't know, more localised full reopening of schools and colleges, as the A-level indicators continue to vary across the country?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 3:37, 10 February 2021

Thank you, Suzy. There is indeed a real enthusiasm from the trade union side and local education authorities to look to prioritise examination years, for exactly the reasons that you have outlined. Teachers would like those children back to as much face-to-face provision as possible, so that those assessments and that work around assessment can be carried out. I want to give reassurance: the guidance does say that work carried out at home can also form part of an assessment, but there is an absolute determination across the piece to now move towards a safe return to face-to-face learning for those older students.

Suzy mentioned the pressure on the NHS. That is just one of the factors that we will need to take into consideration; it's an important one, of course. And it is the danger of overwhelming the NHS and the level 5 notification from the chief medical officers across the United Kingdom that made me take a very regretful decision to have to close schools for face-to-face learning for the majority of pupils. We also need to continue to monitor community transmission levels. We also need to continue to monitor positivity levels, and we need to assess what a return for more face-to-face students would mean for the R rate. But clearly, there is a determination across the piece, and I hope that, by the next three-week review, we will be in a position to outline next steps to returning more children and young people for face-to-face learning.

Photo of Suzy Davies Suzy Davies Conservative 3:39, 10 February 2021

That's encouraging, because older learners and parents are starting to get very agitated now as they see us heading towards the traditional exam period—I know the process is different now—and they're seeing their children getting quite worked up about this. So, the sooner they're open the better on that. You didn't say anything about differences across Wales, but that's possibly because you're not in a position to do that.

I was going to ask you about the curriculum implementation plan, but unless Siân's going to ask you about it today, I'll save that for our final exchange next month, and ask you a quick question about school funding, if I may. Members have expressed concern about the historically high levels of reserves, especially at primary level in our schools. So, a decrease of 22 per cent in that sector as of March last year, before COVID, is worth noting, but at the same time the overall decrease was actually 32.6 per cent, showing that secondary schools were still struggling and, in fact, some primary schools were starting to struggle. And, now, we're in a position heading into COVID, last year, with 35 per cent of our schools in negative reserves. So, that's not even nil, it's below nil. So, how will your education COVID recovery plan be affected by the fact that so many schools are the equivalent of being insolvent? And, as nine of them are special schools, will you be looking to find additional additional learning needs funds for those particular schools?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 3:40, 10 February 2021

Well, finance for recovery is in addition to usual school budgets and, in this financial year, we have invested £29 million in our recruit, recover and raise standards fund, and additional moneys for examination cohorts, as well as additional moneys for the production of support material for examination cohorts. I always take every opportunity to maximise funding to the ALN system, recognising the specific challenges associated with education for children with additional learning needs and, if I am able to, I will be very pleased to add additional sums to that particular budget line. 

Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 3:41, 10 February 2021

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Siân Gwenllian. 

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. In three weeks' time, the full Senedd will be discussing the Curriculum and Assessment (Wales) Bill. If passed the legislation will set the educational direction for our nation for many years to come. Learning about relationships and sexuality is included on the face of the Bill as a mandatory element to be included in the curriculum of all schools. Learning about mental health and well-being has now been added to the face of the Bill at Stage 2. Can you explain why those two elements need to be on the face of the Bill?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 3:42, 10 February 2021

The decision to put relationship and sexuality education on the face of the Bill is as a result of the recommendation by the independent review that I set up as the Minister. The inclusion of making sure that, in setting the curriculum, schools have regard for mental health and well-being is perfectly in line with the policy direction of this Government to ensure a whole-school approach. So, what we are changing and what we are amending is ensuring that, in actually designing a curriculum, mental health and well-being of students is a key consideration. With regard to the content of curriculum, mental health and well-being, of course, will play a very important part of the area of learning and experience, which is a statutory part of the curriculum.

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru 3:43, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

I agree entirely with you that including these two elements could contribute significantly towards transforming our society in a positive way: helping to eradicate the abuse of women and creating an equal society; helping to deal with prejudice against the LGBT community; and in terms of preventing mental health problems. Education is the key in creating the transformation that we need. But the Bill is deficient and flawed, because it isn't rational. 

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru

Your Bill is defective, because it's illogical. 

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Including the two elements that we're discussing in order to ensure that they are taught consistently across our schools, because they can be complex and difficult issues to teach, and because we believe that learning about them could create a better society in Wales—. Now, you've included them for those reasons, but, again, it's exactly the same argument and exactly the same valid argument on the inclusion of a third element on the face of the Bill, namely placing Welsh history in all its diversity, including black and people of colour history, on the face of the Bill. Can you explain the logic for including two important elements, but rejecting that third element on the face of the Bill?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 3:44, 10 February 2021

It will be compulsory under the terms of the new Curriculum for Wales for both Welsh history and black and minority history to be taught in our schools. That is because they are outlined in our 'what matters' statement, which is a statutory part of the curriculum.

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru 3:45, 10 February 2021

(Translated)

But your arguments are flawed, because that isn't logical. What you've just explained now demonstrates that you don't intend to promote Welsh history, in all its diversity, to the face of the Bill in the way that you have chosen to—and I agree with that choice—include two other specific elements on the face of the Bill. Welsh history in all its diversity must be on the face of the Bill if we are serious about our aim to create a curriculum that will enable pupils and children to develop into principled and informed citizens of Wales and the world, which is one of the founding principles of the Bill. It must be included on the face of the Bill, if we are to tackle deep-seated problems of racism and racial inequality, which are systemic within our society, unfortunately. Don't you agree that the world has transformed since this Bill was originally drafted and that including a third mandatory element that could create far-reaching change would mean that legislation could be passed that would be far more powerful, transformational and logical?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 3:46, 10 February 2021

Siân Gwenllian is right; these subjects must be taught in Welsh schools, and they will be taught in Welsh schools—[Interruption.] No, if you let me finish, Siân Gwenllian—they will be taught in Welsh schools because they are included in the 'what matters' statements, which are a mandatory part of the curriculum. I'm sure Siân Gwenllian knows the meaning of the word 'mandatory'. They will be required in law to be taught.

Can I just caution the Member? Because I know she has taken the time and the trouble to meet with Charlotte Williams, who is taking a particular interest in advising the Government on the subject of black history. Charlotte Williams does not believe that what Siân Gwenllian is hoping to achieve can be done by simply talking about black history within the humanities area of learning and experience. She does not believe that that is the correct approach. If we are to see the transformation that Siân Gwenllian talks about, we need these issues taught as cross-curricular themes right the way across the curriculum and that's what will be achieved by our 'what matters' statement, which, as I repeat again, is compulsory and therefore will have to be taught.