Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson first, Janet Finch-Saunders.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Good afternoon, Minister. Now, in a recent virtual round-table I held with Propertymark, it was predicted that there's going to be a huge increase in people looking for rental properties. And I would like to refer Members and members of the public to my own register of interests. This is causing immense pressure for front-line staff in the sales and letting sector, because there are very few properties to rent or buy. Holmans recommend that up to 12,000 homes a year need to be built in Wales by 2031, yet the figures for dwellings completed in 2018-19 was 30.6 per cent less than at the start of devolution. Now, this is a downward decline. Yet, in your letter to the leaders and chief executives, to local authorities, on 17 November, you stated,

'It appears that we are already building the number of market homes we need'.

So, how can this be the case, when only 5,138 new homes were started in 2019? And with this in mind, Minister, do you accept that the appropriate way to respond to the property crisis in Wales would be through empowering existing businesses to build new market homes, rather than wasting time and resources on creating your own national construction company?

Well, the juxtaposition of the two things at the end is quite startling, so I'll deal with that first. The idea that a national construction company would somehow get in the way of building new homes is quite extraordinary. We have yet, as part of the co-operation agreement, to explore with our Plaid Cymru partners exactly how we're going to use the construction company. But we have had a large number of conversations with our registered social landlords and our councils about the shortage of skilled labour, the difficulty of getting good apprentices in place, and the paucity of very good advice about bringing forward developments in good time. So, we will have a very productive conversation with Plaid Cymru about how to fill in gaps where there has been market failure, and other issues where we can bring forward housing in an appropriate way.

The evidence is really interesting, actually, from the Labour Government after the second world war, elected by the returning troops, that an enormous increase in social house building actually stimulated the private market and didn't depress it in any way. The graphs are very interesting, and we are absolutely certain that we will be doing the same thing with our ambitious 20,000 social homes programme. 

Thank you. Minister, on the one hand, you see yourself capable of going into competition with some of our finest builders using taxpayers' money, but, on the other hand, you are actually holding back on the number of homes that we are able to build due to your own or NRW's phosphate guidance. Attendees at the phosphate stakeholders group that I chair made clear that NRW are essentially blocking as many as 10,000 new homes across Wales, including 1,700 of those affordable homes. The cabinet member for planning in Pembrokeshire County Council has reported that the number of applications refused due to NRW guidance will rise sharply in the next few months. Last month, you told this Senedd, and I quote,

'I've got absolutely no problem with NRW's'—

[Interruption.] I'm talking to the Minister, not the Deputy. 

—'with NRW's guidance on the subject.' 

So, will you now retract that statement, and block, or unblock the block, unlock the block—[Laughter.]—of thousands of new homes by authorising exceptions to this guidance, and empower planning authorities to accept phosphate stripping technology in waste water treatment assets as reasonable solutions? 

Well, Janet, I just don't know where to start. First of all, you started with an assessment of the national construction company, which clearly indicated you weren't listening to the answer I had just given you. Quite clearly, I did not say anything about setting up in competition with any of our SME builders, who we have an extremely good relationship with, and who I have a consultative forum with, which I attended extremely recently to discuss it with them. So, let me just put that one to bed. There is absolutely no suggestion of any sort that any public company will be set up as a competitor in the construction market for our SMEs. So, I think you should have listened to that, and be very assured that that's not the case. What I did say very vehemently was that there are a number of market failures, gaps in skills, and things that have been brought to our attention by both council and RSL house builders and by the SME building forum, where it is profitable to have a conversation about a national construction company filling in the gaps. It's a conversation we have yet to have with Plaid Cymru, following the co-operation agreement, and I'll be sure, Deputy Presiding Officer, to bring it forward to the Senedd when we are able to bring the Senedd up to speed on that. 

On the other point, Janet Finch-Saunders has often said that she is in favour of the climate emergency and the solutions that come forward to it, and yet she blocks at every turn every single solution put forward. I will just leave the Welsh public to reach their own conclusions about her sincerity on this point. 

Minister, it is abundantly clear from your responses that, alongside failing to facilitate a much needed house building boom in Wales, you are actively supporting guidance that is holding the sector back. The urgent need to see more new homes delivered is clear when considering the financial black hole that is the temporary home crisis facing our local authorities. I've written to 22 local authorities—FOIs. And the figures—I've yet more to come out on this—are a scandal, and they're startling. For example, Caerphilly County Borough Council have seen their spend on temporary accommodation increase from £174,000 in 2018-19 to just over £1.2 million in 2020-21, and that is not an isolated incident. Gwynedd's spend on temporary accommodation has similarly increased by 265 per cent from 2018-19 to 2020-21, hitting almost £1.7 million. Minister, given that your statement on homelessness last week said you wish to strengthen links between local authorities and the private sector, will you commit to undertaking a deep-dive with local authorities to review how to more effectively provide long-term homes for our much needed residents? Diolch. 

So, again, Janet, I almost admire your ability to put two facts together and make three completely different ones with no relation to the original two. So, we have an ambitious social home building programme of 20,000 low-carbon social homes in the next Senedd term. This is now possible because, after 40 years of preventing councils from building houses, the Tory Government eventually saw sense and took off the caps from the housing revenue accounts. So, I applaud you for having seen sense after only 40 years of ploughing the same furrow.

The next bit of sense you need to see is that the social homes programme and the zero-carbon homes programme is the thing that stimulates the housing market, and that we need to build the right houses of the right standard in the right place, and not just put up any old nonsense all across the countryside, as is proposed across the border. I absolutely applaud all of the agencies working here, including our SME builders, who have been working very hard with us to bring forward that programme. My colleague the Deputy Minister has launched a pipeline for construction across Wales, which has allowed them to fill in the cash flow problems that they have, and we have a very good relationship with them.

On the homelessness point, we provide £1.8 million a month to councils in Wales to combat homelessness brought on by the COVID pandemic. I would that her Government across the border would do anything of the sort and solve the appalling scandal of rough-sleeping that you get under a Conservative Government. 

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Delyth Jewell. 

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Last week, the head of Transport for Wales said that travelling on their trains was fundamentally safe. Welsh Government guidance states that the following measures need to be followed to ensure COVID safety: keeping distance from other people, avoiding crowded spaces, good ventilation when in close proximity to others, and wearing face coverings. So, are these measures being followed on trains? I asked commuters for their experiences over social media, and these are some of the phrases from the responses I received: 'Crammed carriages, nobody wearing masks'; 'People crammed like sardines'; 'Impossible to ensure COVID safety'; 'Like a cattle cart and little mask wearing'; '90 per cent not wearing masks on the Rhymney line'; and 'Windows shut with no ventilation'. One person said they thought they'd caught COVID on an overcrowded TfW train between Chester and Bangor a few weeks ago. Another said she had a panic attack on the train during the last rugby game day because so many people were stood and crammed on the train. I was also sent pictures, Minister, of crammed carriages with little or no mask wearing. So, Minister, do you agree with the head of Transport for Wales that travelling on trains in Wales is fundamentally safe?

Thank you. I think the full quote, to give him fairness, was to acknowledge that there were considerable challenges of overcrowding, and some passengers were refusing to wear masks despite the very clear guidelines, but fundamentally, the trains are safe, given the cleaning regimes put in place, and given all the other things that Transport for Wales are doing to follow the guidelines. They're making extraordinary efforts, but there is no doubt that there are challenges, and there are a number of reasons for that.

You quoted the issue of the rugby matches that were held by the Welsh Rugby Union late in the evening when they knew full well that there would be limited train services following the game, which would create, clearly, a pressure on the system. There are also other problems hitting the rail industry at the moment, where trains are being cancelled and carriages being damaged because of the storms and because of the weather. In fact, on the train I caught up to Glasgow, one was taken out of service because it hit a pheasant on the line. Now, that is not TfW's fault. There's also a challenge around staff absences because of self-isolation, so there's no doubt that the public transport system is under great pressure at the moment. 

The issue of mask wearing is ultimately one of personal responsibility. There are people claiming to be exempt from mask wearing when, clearly, that is not the case. But it is almost impossible to prove that. We have, working with British Transport Police, measures in place to enforce mask wearing, and a number of people have been removed from services when challenged and not able to provide a valid excuse. I think there are a confluence of conditions all converging to make things very challenging, but public transport remains a safe mode of transport. But there's no doubt that, sometimes in the day, services are crowded.  

Minister, I fully agree that we need to be cognisant of the various challenges that the transport sector is facing. Regardless of whose fault these risks are, I struggle to see how it can be said that trains are fundamentally safe, but, maybe, at some times of the day, they're not. I saw last night that someone was quoting George Orwell on Twitter, but it was in relation to No. 10's insistence that the now infamous COVID party didn't happen. Orwell said:

'The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.'

I know we need to move on, Minister, but if the health Minister is in the Chamber, I'd urge her to look at this as well, because I really think there is a mountain of evidence that taking a train in Wales can mean taking a significant COVID risk. 

But to move on, Minister, clearly the root cause of this terrible state of our train services is the continual underfunding of Welsh rail. The Wales Governance Centre has calculated that we've been underfunded to the tune of around £500 million over the past 10 years. But it does also seem that the Welsh Government has underdelivered on its promises, or perhaps previous Welsh Governments. When the franchise was awarded to KeolisAmey in 2018, it said that the railway would be unrecognisable in five years, thanks to the vision of the Welsh Government. So, Minister, could you give us an update on how the railway will look in two years' time, now that it's in public ownership? Are we really going to see transformative improvements? And could you give us your view on how much agency the Government truly has over rail and how much is simply out of its hands because it doesn't control the funding?

There certainly are significant changes taking place for the better. Last week, we unveiled a new fleet of trains to replace the Pacers, and once you have the chance to go on them yourself, you'll see that it is a transformative passenger experience. We're also developing the south Wales metro programme, which is a huge civil engineering project—the largest infrastructure project that south Wales will have seen for many decades. So, there is no doubt that there is significant change at the agency of the Welsh Government. But also, we must acknowledge that COVID has disrupted plans in terms of collapsing the franchise—and certainly, the Welsh franchise wasn't the only franchise to fall apart under the strain of the disappearing farebox and the increasing cost pressures—and that has knocked back the delivery schedule that we had for increasing the timetable and for bringing new services forward. So, that is an inevitable fact for which we are deeply sorry, but that is out of our hands.

In terms of the underinvestment, the Member makes an absolutely bang-on point. The UK Government has consistently underinvested, and in the next programme of funding we are some £5 billion short of where we ought to be. As the First Minister touched upon in First Minister's questions again yesterday, the refusal of the UK Government to class high speed 2 as an England-only project, despite the fact that not a single mile of track is in Wales, is clearly having a massive effect on our ability to invest in the rail infrastructure. And I would say to Conservative Members in the Chamber that I remember full well the alliance that was forged in this Chamber on electrification some 10 years ago, when there was a genuine cross-party effort to bang the drum for Wales. I took part in the delegation before becoming a Senedd Member with Members of the Conservative Party to make that case to UK Ministers. It was effective, and we are strongest when we are united. I'd like to see a similar alliance to make the case, on fairness grounds, that Wales needs to be treated differently when it comes to the categorisation of high-speed rail. Otherwise, we're not going to be able to fulfil our joint ambitions to achieve net zero by 2050.

Minister, taking up that exact point, Wales could lose out on £5 billion due to being excluded from Barnett consequentials for HS2 spending. This, as you'll obviously know, represents around 5 per cent of the total expended expenditure of the project. It could, of course, be much higher if the cost spirals, which is likely. In the words of the Western Mail's Will Hayward, 

'The decision to count HS2, a once in a century investment, as England and Wales spend has condemned Wales to another century of a second class rail network.'

Even though the decision to exclude Wales from this funding, as you've been setting out, Minister, was made by a Conservative UK Government, past Labour Welsh Governments have also contributed to this mess. There was a decision in 2005 to refuse the devolution of rail, described as the worst decision in the history of devolution. And there was the inability, in the past, to understand Plaid Cymru's argument on HS2 a decade later, with Carwyn Jones insisting that Wales was receiving its HS2 consequential, even though setting the HS2 comparability factor for Wales at 0 per cent would see our comparability factor for Department for Transport spending plummet in the future, which is what we're seeing now. I'm sure that the current Labour Welsh Government is keen to—

You need to ask your question now.

Could you confirm, Minister, that the Welsh Government has received confirmation from Keir Starmer that a future Labour UK Government would provide Wales with the full Barnett share of HS2 expenditure, backdated to the first pound spent?

I've certainly, personally, consistently made the argument for the Barnett formula to reflect the spending in England and in Wales. In fact, I led a coalition of organisations to have the Holtham commission set up, using this as one of the examples. And when I was director of the Institute of Welsh Affairs, I consistently made the case, so I'll take no lectures from the Member on that. But she is absolutely right that Westminster Governments of different parties have not recognised that Wales deserves more investment, and that's why I repeat my call to the Conservatives for all in this Chamber to come together to see if we can agree a cross-party call to the UK Government to think again on the way Wales is treated when it comes to rail investment.