Item 8 this afternoon is a debate on the Local Government and Housing Committee report, 'Provision of sites for Gypsy, Roma and Travellers'. I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion—John Griffiths.

Motion NDM8139 John Griffiths

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Local Government and Housing Committee, ‘Provision of sites for Gypsy, Roma and Travellers’, which was laid in the Table Office on 11 August 2022.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm pleased to open today's debate on the Local Government and Housing Committee's report on the provision of sites for Gypsy, Roma and Travellers. I'd like to start by thanking all those who contributed to our inquiry, in particular to the individuals and families from the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller community who opened their homes to members of the committee and spoke so candidly about their experiences.

The Gypsy, Roma and Traveller community is part of the fabric of Welsh culture, history and traditions. Too often, however, it is a community marginalised, pushed to the edges of society, and often the subject of prejudice and discrimination. In 2014, this Senedd passed legislation that would require local authorities to both assess the accommodation needs of the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller community and to meet that identified need. The Housing (Wales) Act 2014 sets out clear duties and expectations on local authorities to ensure sufficient culturally appropriate site provision for the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller community. Yet, eight years after those provisions came into force, we continue to hear of severe overcrowding at local authority sites, families waiting years for a pitch, and a backlog of maintenance and repair issues. We saw first-hand, on our visits to various locations in Wales, the issues that the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller community face day to day. On-site facilities, particularly for the young, are in very poor condition, or simply do not exist. 

Paul Davies took the Chair.

Too often, sites are located far from local services and amenities, including schools, and are usually situated near busy A-roads and industrial infrastructure. We heard from Professor Jo Richardson of De Montfort University, who noted that sites are often located in unsuitable areas,

'because it's the patch of land that had the least hostility, that could be developed'.

This deprives the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller community of any connection to the natural environment, and the opportunity to make a decent home. This, in our view, is totally unacceptable.

We were encouraged, Llywydd dros dro, to hear the Minister for Social Justice agree that locating sites next to busy roads and far from local services is unacceptable, and Welsh Government with partner organisations are seeking to improve outcomes through its 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan'. The committee welcomes the publication of this plan; however, we do have reservations about its potential effectiveness in its ability to deliver more sites. Whether such emphasis should be placed on the plan is a matter of debate, since legislation already exists that requires local authorities to meet the need of Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities. The evidence suggests that there is little accountability for failure to meet those statutory duties at present. The Minister told the committee that the legislative framework is 'robust' and that since 2014, 63 new pitches have been built, with funding to refurbish many more. We call on the Welsh Government to ensure that the framework is effective in practice, and to set out how it will tighten its monitoring of implementation of the Act, given the problems that we know exist in terms of availability of sites, quality of sites, suitable location of sites, and the general cultural unsuitability of provision within Wales.

Within the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan' there is a commitment to create a national network of transit provision to facilitate travelling life by 2025. We heard that the lack of transitory provision and stopping places in Wales is of real concern to the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller community. Data currently shows that there are as few as two transit pitches across the whole of Wales. This lack of provision only adds to the challenges faced by the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller community.

The passing of the UK Government’s Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022 has heightened anxiety among many within that community. The Act makes trespassing a criminal offence and gives police the powers to tackle unauthorised encampments, and may include seizing vehicles from those who live this nomadic lifestyle. The committee was reassured to hear from the Welsh police forces that the use of such powers would be a last resort, and that a multi-agency response will continue to be adopted here in Wales. Nevertheless, mitigating the impact of the Act on these communities is imperative, and that can only be done by providing sufficient and appropriate sites and pitches across our country.

While the focus of the inquiry was on the provision of local authority sites, many families are seeking to establish a home of their own on their own parcel of land. We heard of a myriad of barriers and legal obstacles to the granting of planning permission. Many families, in fact, go to great expense to hire legal representation and planning specialists to help them navigate a complicated system, too often without success. We were pleased to hear, then, that Welsh Government has committed to commission a three-year pilot programme to provide trusted, independent advice to people seeking to develop private sites. We look forward to seeing this programme progress with speed, and we will be looking closely at the impact it will have on outcomes.

Throughout the evidence gathering process, the committee heard that prejudice and discrimination is prevalent in the decisions and actions taken by institutions and elected representatives. The Children’s Commissioner for Wales called for more to be done to tackle the prejudice that exists within local authorities, and at a community level, to prevent discrimination in decision-making processes. To this end, we are pleased to see that the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan' commits to commission a provider to deliver members' training on Gypsy and Traveller communities’ culture, needs and strengths. However, we are concerned that the training will not be provided to all local authorities in Wales, and we do have reservations about the extent to which the training will have lasting impact. We recommended that the training should be expanded to the community council sector in Wales.

There is a need, we believe, to improve knowledge and understanding of the culture, needs and strengths of Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities among the wider community, and we were pleased to hear that our recommendations have been accepted in full. We look forward to monitoring the development and impact of this work over the next few years, and that includes funding. Funding to support the development of measures in the action plan, as well as continued funding support for local authorities, will be critical to improving the availability of appropriate sites and pitches in the future. The Welsh Government has committed to review the current funding policy, with a view to pilot additional or new ways of funding site provision, including support for private sites, by 2024. We would encourage Welsh Government to explore all possible avenues for funding the development of sites in Wales.

Our 21 recommendations, which, as I said earlier, we're very pleased to see have been accepted in full by the Welsh Government, we believe set out some very important ways forward. We know that the Minister for Social Justice and the Welsh Government as a whole are committed to improving not only the provision of sites for Gypsy, Roma and Travellers, but also to improving the lives of this diverse community.

This is a very important issue to us, and I believe our report has set out in quite stark terms the reality of the situation here in Wales at the moment, and the need for much more to be done and action to be taken that is practically effective on the ground, where it really counts. Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities simply want a place to call home for however long they are there. We as a committee will be monitoring this important issue throughout the term of this sixth Senedd to see how interventions and, in particular, the goals within the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan' have positively impacted on the lives of those it seeks to help. We all know actions speak louder than words, and in these instances, action is greatly needed. Diolch.

As I'm sure everyone here will agree, it was very pleasing to see that the Minister has accepted all the recommendations made in the committee report, but, to be honest, with such slow progress of this Government in meeting its duty to provide appropriate sites in the last eight years, there is little to be reassured about in terms of what will be different this time. Reading the report, I have no doubt that this Government views Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities as second-class citizens. It is an appalling state of affairs that this community find themselves in and, frankly, I'm genuinely surprised that the Minister has allowed this situation to deteriorate to where it is.

I and colleagues here—and I'm sure many Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities around the country as well—are deeply concerned that these recommendations have been accepted by the Government with a typical view of having little to no intention of actually implementing them, and I'd like to use this time to urge the Minister in every possible way to please take these recommendations seriously, because there's been an immeasurable impact on the communities who are waiting for implementation of policy.

I would like to make the Minister aware that the extremely slow progress on the implementation of the Housing (Wales) Act 2014 is not providing sufficient sites for GRT communities, and this means that there are families under legal enforcement to leave their own land, with no alternative options provided; that there are families encamped on pieces of land for more than 10 years, with very basic or no facilities; and there are families who, despite their registered need, have seen no progress on additional pitches for members of their growing families, and who have now become technically homeless and living on roadsides. This is an appalling situation for them to be in, and it is of this Government's making.

I would therefore like to urge the Minister to take responsibility and show some leadership here and ensure that outstanding reviews are implemented, because it is having some serious consequences for communities. For instance, the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan', created to deliver the recommendations and the programme of work that has been produced, has not produced an update on any progress since its publication in July, and this means that people are left in a state of limbo because there are no timelines for when work will begin. Similarly, the Gypsy and Traveller accommodation assessments—GTAAs—for all 22 local authorities, which were submitted to the Welsh Government in February of this year for review, have yet to be completed, and the failure to complete the review means that Gypsies and Travellers do not know that their needs have been included for future site provision, and plans to address acknowledged accommodation needs for families cannot progress until replacement GTAAs are adopted.

As we are aware, the committee report found that there is a significant lack of transitory provision in Wales. In fact, there are no available transit sites or designated stopping places in Wales, and this does indeed fall far short of meeting the needs of Gypsy, Roma and Travellers, because it limits their ability to lead a nomadic lifestyle. Since the Minister has accepted a recommendation that cites the anti-racist action plan as the driver to deliver transit provision in Wales, I am interested to know what action the Government is taking to achieve the stated goal of at least five pitches in both north and south Wales, bearing in mind that a significant number of the draft local authority GTAAs have assessed that they have no requirement for transit provision in their areas.

I also want to bring to your attention the views of Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities who have expressed their concerns that they're just not being listened to and are kept out of the decision-making processes that concern them. We've heard from communities in Denbighshire and Conwy, who have said that councillors are disrespectful to them and ignorant of their needs, and that they are not taken seriously by Welsh Government officials or advocacy services, who believe that they know what is best for them without actually including them in any decision-making processes, and in particular, they believe that officials are encouraging the erroneous view that transit sites are not needed.

Moreover, because these communities have been moved off land and, in some cases, off land that they own, without appropriate sites to go to and having to resort to camping on road verges or wherever they can, they feel that they're being viewed unjustly as criminals by the outside world, and the longer this process takes of actually building both transit and permanent sites, the more entrenched the view of them being criminals is becoming. This unjust negative view is the result of the inaction of this Welsh Government in implementing its own policies. In this regard, given the lack of progress to date on how the Welsh Government will ensure that transit provision is progressed, the Welsh Government needs, in my view, to provide an explanation of what nomadic communities should do in the meantime, now that trespassing has become a criminal rather than civil offence and that there are no available legal places for vehicles to stay whilst travelling.

And finally, I believe that this Government needs to state its plan on how to ensure that the urgency to deal with the issues that the GRT community face are acted upon and properly monitored. And I think that the GRT communities who have been affected by all this deserve an apology from this Government for the situation it has placed them in. Thank you.

I want to echo the thanks that the Chair John Griffiths expressed earlier. Certainly, everyone contributed and enriched the discussion that we had while undertaking this inquiry, but thanks in the main to those witnesses and those who welcomed us into their homes to discuss these issues, and who opened their hearts to us in the process. But the research undertaken as part of preparing this report was an eye-opener, I have to confess.

Of course, one is painfully aware of the prejudices and racism that exist against our nomadic communities here in Wales, but I have to confess that I hadn't fully realised what became clear, and what appeared to me, at least, to be systemic racism in some of our local authorities, which flowed from the political body. I accept that that is serious statement, but the evidence that we heard demonstrates clearly that not only is there a lack of understanding of the needs of our nomadic communities, but that there is a deliberate lack of action and prejudice against them. It's clear that there is prejudice against ethnic groups on a large scale, and let's call it what it is, namely racism.

The good news is that it is perfectly clear to me that the Minister is personally committed to tackling this, and I'm sure that she is wholly sincere in her desire to see this issue being solved. But, the question remains: why, eight years since the legislation was passed, has this issue not already been solved? There are statutory expectations already in place that are meant to ensure that there are purpose-built residential and transit sites available to Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities in Wales. But, despite this, it is concerning to hear the Minister say that the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan' would tackle this issue. Is this not recognition of the Government's total failure to enforce its own legislation? We don't need to wait for new action plans—we must enforce legislation that already exists.

So, while I welcome the fact that the Government accepts every one of the recommendations that the committee has made, the truth is that, as things stand, I and people from Wales's nomadic communities have very little faith that the recommendations will be implemented. I'd like to hear from the Minister what the timetable is for delivering these improvements and recommendations and to ensure that legislation is implemented. What indicators will be used to measure delivery, and how will these indicators be monitored? How will progress be monitored?

What became clear was that our Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities are having decisions made for them and made to them more often than not. They themselves are not an active part of any decisions made, and they're not considered as key stakeholders, even in decisions on the future of their own lives. Therefore, I'd like the Minister to set out how the Government will ensure that these communities have a central role in decision making and a lead in drawing up plans for permanent and transit sites, so that their cultural and social needs are considered in full.

I remember the Minister giving the following answer in response to one of my questions in the scrutiny process:

'So, we need to take into account what the issues are, what the barriers are to providing the appropriate accommodation. Clearly, that power of direction is there, and you may find that we will have to use this. We're just about to, as I said, timewise, look at the latest assessment, and that assessment will show us whether there is a will and, clearly, a commitment to deliver on statutory duties in terms of the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller sites—residential and transit as well. So, I have no hesitation in saying that we will use those powers of direction if that is deemed to be appropriate.'

Those were the Minister's words in giving evidence to us, that she was not afraid to use the powers she had. But, after years of failed delivery, it's hard to understand why these powers haven't already been used to date. So, to conclude, I'd like the Minister to explain under what circumstances she would be willing to use these powers. Thank you.

I'd like to thank the Local Government and Housing Committee staff and the Senedd's community liaison team for their work producing the report, organising evidence sessions and visits to engage directly with the community—that was really valuable—and also Travelling Ahead, who came with us as well.

We discovered there aren't enough sites and there are long waiting lists for local authority ones of up to 20 years. Sites are often on the outskirts of areas, away from amenities, with no pavements to safely link them. There was a lot of concrete and metal barrier fencing and they were poorly maintained, with a lack of green spaces and provision for children. Their location next to busy roads and industrial sites means noise and air pollution is a real issue. One place we visited had one electricity meter at the entrance to the site and extension cables linking caravans to the electricity provision at various points, and broadband was also poor in the areas. Representatives of the community should be consulted when planning where sites should be as part of the LDP process. It should be done right at the beginning, and also when any additional funding for site provision is made available, which wasn't happening.

The Welsh Government's capital funding for site provision improvements is really welcome, but at one site the funding had been used by the local authority to improve the access road. The community said it wasn't the one that they actually wanted repairing, and they would have actually liked to have used the funding for other purposes, such as play provision on the site, and improving the green area that was to the side and they didn't have access to. Layout of sites is also important for well-being, and not always properly considered. One site said they were asked for their views but they were not reflected in what was delivered by the council-owned site. 

One home had a broken window, which had been waiting for a repair for a long time. Another had ineffective gutters for surface water. I was thinking that perhaps Gypsy, Roma and Traveller sites should move into the housing revenue account to sit along other social housing, so that rent is ring-fenced, reinvested, and they could be brought up to standard, such as social housing is. As residents pay rent for the sites just like any other tenant, they are subject to council tax, rent, gas, electricity and other associated charges, in the same way as other tenants are. 

It was so informative listening and talking to the members of the community. As a councillor I had diversity training, but never had the opportunity to directly engage with the GRT community; I sat in a room with other councillors, having a slide presentation delivered by a council officer. So, it would be good if there was more cultural awareness with the extended community where there are sites, to help knock down barriers and to build community cohesiveness.

One site we visited, owned by a family, wanted permission for their immediate family to have temporary homes on the site so they could be nearby. One daughter had a disabled son with complex needs and needed the family support. They were struggling with the planning system, bureaucracy and discrimination, and really needed help.

There is the concern that the UK Government Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022, which makes unauthorised encampments a criminal offence, could impact, as there is a lack of authorised sites. And with there also being a lack of transition sites, it was considered that corporate joint committees, under their role of strategic planning, could enable local authorities to work in collaboration to provide suitable sites. Having someone independent who could be a trusted liaison officer for planning or other help to represent their views is essential, and there needs to be measured goals and timelines in place for all the recommendations to help strengthen the legislation.

Once again, my thanks go to everyone who took part. It's certainly opened my eyes, and I found it really useful. Now the stakeholders need to know it was all worthwhile, worth their time, and that their voices will be heard. Thank you.

I'd like to pay tribute to Travelling Ahead, first of all, which is a really excellent organisation, financially aided by the Welsh Government. It's really good at helping the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller community assert their rights, but they really can't do it on their own, and that is why I'm really pleased that the Local Government and Housing Committee has looked at this, because we are going to have to keep coming back to this one, if we're not going to have what Joel James said, which is that there's not sufficient progress in the last eight years. The Minister is, I know, a serious champion of this issue, but frankly the Minister cannot authorise sites in any particular local authority—it's local authorities who need to do that—and all public bodies need to have a bit more equity in their approach to delivering public services. The situation we face at the moment simply is unacceptable.

The Gypsy, Roma and Traveller community is one of the oldest communities in Europe, and yet they are the most discriminated against ethnic group, throughout Wales as well as throughout Europe. The level of prejudice they suffer is worse than anything that any other ethnic minority group suffers. Year after year, local authorities have failed to act on the requirement under the Housing (Wales) Act 2014 to analyse the sufficiency or insufficiency of housing provision for the Gypsy and Traveller community. Quite frankly, they've been allowed to get away with it, because year after year, capital sums have been set aside in the Welsh Government's budget to enable the cost of providing sites to be accounted for, and local authorities simply have ignored the problem, in the main. Obviously, there are no votes in this, and that is why people don't do it. And that is why people end up next to busy roads with polluted air, where nobody else would ever dream of living. 

They're also the lowest performing ethnic group for educational attainment by a racing mile. The curriculum needs to be flexible enough to meet every pupil's needs, and that includes the Gypsy, Traveller and Roma community. There are many careers that are actually quite suitable for people who have a travelling lifestyle. For people who work in the construction industry, when one project ends, another one has to start somewhere else. So, there are lots of bonuses and positives about the Gypsy and Traveller way of life, but respect is simply not possible without participation and consultation in shaping a better life for them. 

It is tragic that one of the worst decisions of the UK Tory Government, amongst a long list of poor decision making, is the criminalisation of the Gypsy, Traveller and Roma community, who have to stop anywhere if there is not a registered site. It's simply unacceptable. I'm glad to hear that the police say that it's only as a last resort will they criminalise people and take away their caravans, but we really can't go on like this, and local authorities are going to have to have their feet held to the fire.

There is some good practice. As I recall, Monmouthshire and Pembrokeshire have provided some good sites, and other local authorities have simply ignored their responsibilities. I suggest that we need to keep bringing this matter back to the Senedd, because we all have a duty to see some progress on this. I know that the Minister for Social Justice is very keen to see progress, but she needs to liaise with the Minister for Finance and Local Government and ensure that we actually get action on this now. I'm very glad that the Minister has accepted all the recommendations of what sounds like a really interesting inquiry, but we can't just go on noting these things, we've got to see some change. 

I call on the Minister for Social Justice, Jane Hutt. 

Diolch yn fawr, acting Llywydd. I want to take the opportunity, first of all, to thank the Local Government and Housing Committee for their important inquiry into the provision of sites for Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities. The committee and the Chair, John Griffiths, today asked the very pertinent question of whether our legislative and policy framework is robust and sufficient to support the development and provision of culturally appropriate sites for our Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities. I said, when I came before the committee, that we do have a very strong and comprehensive framework of duties and powers, yet there is clearly so much more to do to ensure that the impact of those powers and that framework is actually making a clear and urgent difference to Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities. Your inquiry has been so important to bring that focus out: is it robust and what more can we do?

I do think it is helpful to look back to what has happened as a result of the 2014 legislation. Between 2015 and 2021, we funded local authorities to build 63 new pitches and refurbish many more, and last financial year we had a budget of £3.5 million for refurbishing existing accommodation, constructing new pitches and improving the sustainability of sites. This year, the budget is £3.69 million, and 93 pitches now have improved access to utilities, five new pitches are being constructed and 88 pitches improved or refurbished. You will have seen some of those examples during your inquiry. And of course, this also enables site safety as well as the provision that our Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities want and have planned for. So, in answering that question—that key question—we must recognise that the steps that have been taken are steps that are delivering progress, but make no mistake, we must do more.

Those local authorities that have taken the lead are the exemplar authorities, but all authorities should be exemplar. There is more to do to bring others up to the level of those who have made that positive progress, and I do think that's why our 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan' has added new impetus to address this challenge. As well as embedding a general anti-racist culture within public administration in Wales, we've committed to several actions specific to these communities, including guidance for schools, creating a national network of transit provision—and I accepted the recommendation on transit provision; that came through so strongly in your inquiry, and as you know, in my response, I said,

'The certification of a national network of transit provision to facilitate travelling life, with consideration for negotiated stopping, as appropriate, is one of the specific actions now being taken forward under the Anti-Racist Wales Action Plan.'

Also, piloting new mechanisms for permanent provision, providing learning and development support to local authority elected members on Gypsy and Traveller communities' culture, needs and strengths. And, Carolyn Thomas, you drew this out, having been a councillor—many former councillors here in this Chamber—you remember that this has got to be a different way of doing training, hasn't it, so that we actually learn from the Gypsy, Traveller and Roma communities and people themselves.

Also, a pilot programme to provide independent advice to those seeking to develop private sites. There was a lot of discussion about that, and it is important that that is independent, so that those private sites could be developed. Yes, and indeed, as you called for, a review of current funding policy. If it's not, why isn't it achieving the outcomes that we want? A revision of our sites guidance and a national training programme for the housing options team and the appointment of leads in each authority: when there are leads in authorities, we know that it makes a huge difference, and I'll just comment on one example in a moment.

So, we do have the legislation; we have the guidance, the powers of direction, and we now have this strengthened policy route to take forward with the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan'. And it's very clear that we have a renewed focus that now must be on how local authorities deliver, and they've got to be the ones who deliver with our backing and our challenge. And I will be meeting with lead local authority members, cabinet members, to discuss this report with them. This is not just a report for us, is it? It's a report particularly for our partners in local government. Local authorities have come under the spotlight, and that's been reflected here today by Members' contributions. Much of the evidence heard by the committee was a lack of action, and amongst some, it was also attributed to a lack of political will; that resistance, as Jenny Rathbone has said. And I think the actions set out in our 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan' acknowledge and address this, but we do want to publicly recognise examples of what is possible.

So, when I went to visit a site recently in Merthyr, there was a community hall beside the site, and in that community hall, they had a number of services, including boxing sessions for the young people, Citizens Advice, Mudiad Ysgolion Meithrin working on site with children, and also the site was being redeveloped in partnership with all the community having a say in design, in terms of future prospects—very much a place that felt like a community in itself. And this is what we want to see, and I do commend the Merthyr authority for working to achieve that. Real commitment was shown. Again, lead officers have such a key role, and councillors should be at the forefront. That dedicated lead officer was also very keen to work with other authorities, to work on a regional basis, which very much picks up recommendation 2 on the transitory provision.

So, through our 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan', we do seek to encourage, challenge, and support authorities to change the narrative around this community and deliver better outcomes. We do have the powers to direct, but I still think that we can achieve a lot through support and guidance, but I will be clear—Mabon challenged me again today, and I remember, I made that commitment that, where our partnership with local government does not succeed, we will intervene directly as necessary.

But, finally, I want to say that running through the core of our approach is engagement with the voice of the community itself, and this is particularly true and reflected in the committee's recommendations 9, 16 and 21 regarding site guidance, accommodation assessments and enforcement of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022. All of this can only be progressed by not only listening to, but involving those with lived experience. Can I thank the Local Government and Housing Committee for the way that you carried out this inquiry, the way that you went out and met with Gypsy, Roma and Traveller people and communities? So, yes, we accept all the recommendations without reservation. We're grateful for the Local Government and Housing Committee's commitment to support in improving the needs and lives of our Gypsy, Roma and Traveller people and communities in Wales. This is about, actually, how we engage with our Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities.

We have committed dedicated funding for over a decade to support improved outcomes for Gypsy, Roma and Traveller learners. And I think it's very important that Tom Hendry, who represented the Welsh Romani Gypsy community on Holocaust Memorial Day 2021—and many of you will remember that—is one of the community mentors who actually helped us to deliver the anti-racist Wales equality action plan. Diolch yn fawr. Thank you for your inquiry.

I call on John Griffiths to reply to the debate.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd dros dro. May I thank everybody who contributed to what I think is a very important debate today? I think there seems to be a common acceptance that Wales is not in the position that it should be in with regard to the Gypsy, Roma, Traveller community. We like to think of ourselves as a country that is very strong on human rights, and that's reflected in a lot of things that, first of all the Assembly and now the Senedd has done over the course of devolution. We've worked very closely with our ethnic minority communities in Wales on very many issues.

But, as many contributors to this debate have said, and as our report makes clear, there seems to be a real gap when it comes to the Gypsy, Roma, Traveller community. They face discrimination, a lack of understanding, prejudice on a level and with a history that marks them out, I think, as being treated differently to others in Wales. We know, don't we, that it's the mark of a civilised society to understand difference, to accommodate difference, to support difference, so that those with an alternative lifestyle are able to lead that alternative lifestyle. For this community, over an awful long time, we've seen that ability to lead the lifestyle they wish to lead in accordance with their history and their culture eroded, undermined and not supported. We've seen their traditional stopping places disappear with creeping urbanisation, industrialisation, commercial development, and they haven't been replaced with adequate, culturally appropriate sites—permanent site or transit sites, or indeed, more informal stopping places. So, it really is, as we've heard, as our report demonstrates and as the debate today has reflected, a real gap in policy and practice in Wales. It is a stain, I think, on our country.

So, we really do need to take action, I think, along the lines in our report and, as the Minister has stated, we need that political will at a Welsh Government level, at a local authority level, and in service providers, as Jenny Rathbone mentioned. And I'd like to thank Jenny, because I know that she's long championed these communities in her work and in her previous chairing of an all-party group. So, thank you very much for your work on this, Jenny, and thanks very much to the committee members and their contributions today.

I think, given the background that I've outlined and what I think we all accept exists, that gap between the framework that exists—the legislative, regulatory and guidance framework—and what actually happens on the ground, we, obviously, very obviously, need to see action. We know that there's a great deal of cynicism, I think, borne of bitter experience in our communities here in Wales. They'll look at this report, they'll listen to this debate, they'll hear the commitment of Welsh Government and they'll say, 'What's going to count is delivery and implementation'—what actually happens on the ground in Wales, through our local authorities, through other service providers, through that leadership and political will of Welsh Government. That will be the acid test. Can we finally deliver for these communities? Will there finally be proper engagement and co-production right across Wales in terms of site provision, transit, pitches, refurbishment and repair of existing sites? All of that is not seeing adequate engagement, consultation and co-production at the moment. There is some good practice, as the Minister stated, but it's not consistent; it's not right across Wales. There is so much that needs to be done on this, and we rely now, I think, on Welsh Government to show a clear lead, to make sure that acceptance of the recommendations is followed up with effective leadership and delivery on the ground. Jenny said that this matter should come back to Plenary, and I'm sure it will, and also, of course, it will come back to our committee, and we will keep a very strong watching brief on whether we do see that necessary action on the ground.

The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? No. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.