We move now to the next item, which is the debate on the outcome of the EU referendum. I call on the First Minister to move the motion—Carwyn Jones.

Motion NDM6045 Jane Hutt

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the outcome of the referendum on the UK’s membership of the European Union.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Lywydd. Well, the democratic voice of the people has been heard, and we have to respect that, but we have to say that the debate that preceded the vote last Thursday proved to be very divisive for our communities. It’s now time to abandon the unhelpful, disruptive rhetoric and work towards restoring community cohesion and doing what we were elected to do, and that is delivering for the people of Wales. What will follow now are lengthy negotiations, potentially lasting years, under the article 50 process, which, as Members will have heard me say earlier on, should start, to my mind, sooner rather than later, with the EU, of course, in order to strike an agreement on the arrangements for withdrawal and to redefine our relationship with the EU. Now, no-one has a clear idea of what ‘out’ looks like. That’s the issue that has to be wrestled with at this stage and that will be a complex process. We will work tirelessly during this period to ensure we are not overlooked and to fight for the best possible deal for Wales.

We need to know, first of all, what the UK Government’s vision is of a world outside the EU. We need to know that as quickly as possible in order to return stability to the markets and to give potential investors a clear picture of what our country has to offer. I’ve been clear that companies I speak to are always keen to come to Wales in order to access the single market, and that is something that we must ensure is not lost as a competitive advantage.

As I said yesterday, it’s crucial that the final terms of the treaty to exit the EU come to all four national parliaments. That’s consistent with the Prime Minister’s statement this is a country comprising four nations and his commitment to ensuring we will be fully part of the negotiation process with Brussels. That has not undermined the result last week; it simply adds to the need to make sure that any deal is approved by this, the elected parliament of the people of Wales.

Yesterday we resolved to form an expert team of civil servants based in our existing office in Brussels, independent of the UK Government, to explore where our priorities may be taken forward directly with the EU. This will run in parallel with, but is not intended to replace, our promised participation in the UK Government’s negotiating approach. We do need to reassure inward investors, those who’ve shown faith in Wales, that we’re still open for business and we still have a lot to offer. We are determined as a Government to stay internationally engaged, outward-looking and pro-business in our approach, and that’s what will maintain business confidence. It will also help, of course, inward investors to take the right decisions in what is now an uncertain environment.

We have worked hard on resolving the steel crisis. That is unfortunately ongoing, and we will continue to work with Tata and support steelworkers as we look to meet the immense challenges thrown up by the referendum result.

Llywydd, I’ve already outlined my immediate priorities to protect the interests of Wales in these changed circumstances. Firstly, we must protect our jobs. Doing everything we can to maintain economic confidence and stability is the No. 1 task. We’ve built excellent proactive relationships with Welsh businesses and inward investors, and these will need to intensify following yesterday’s vote.

Secondly, we must play a full part in discussions about the timing and terms of UK withdrawal from the EU. Our participation is essential, not just for directly devolved issues, but for the whole range of issues affecting vital Welsh national interests. The Prime Minister has already said that Wales should be fully involved in negotiations on the terms of UK withdrawal and our future relationship with Europe, and I’ll be holding the UK Government to that.

Thirdly, as I’ve said many times already this afternoon, it is vital that the UK negotiates to retain access to the 500 million customers in the single market.

Fourthly, we should negotiate continued participation on current terms in major EU programmes like the common agricultural policy and structural funds up to the end of 2020, if we’re still there in 2020. That would facilitate continuity for citizens, communities, businesses and investors while arrangements are made for the longer term.

Fifthly, Wales, as we know, is a net beneficiary from the EU, to the tune of hundreds of millions of pounds. There is now an overwhelming case for a major and immediate revision of the Barnett formula, taking into account needs arising from EU withdrawal, and I call today for the promise made that Wales will not lose a penny to be guaranteed, and also that it will be the people of Wales who decide how that money is spent.

Finally, withdrawal from the EU is a massive constitutional shift for the UK. It has equally far-reaching implications for the devolution settlement. That means the relationship between devolved administrations and the UK Government must now be placed onto an entirely different footing. Otherwise there is a risk that the price to pay for leaving the EU is the end of the UK, and that is something that will worry many, many people.

As I said last week, the Welsh Government will fight for the people of Wales in all of those vital areas, but also strive to unify the divisions exposed by this vote, taking Wales forward together, which I believe is what the nation now wants and needs. Passions have been raised by this debate, I know, but it’s time now for calm, not knee-jerk reactions. Many will be concerned about the vitriol that seeped into the campaign. This will not help us with these significant challenges that now face us all. We also need to find a way of talking to one another again. We may have voted different ways, but we remain neighbours, friends and family. The challenges we faced yesterday on the NHS, on the economy and education we still face today, and we must rise to those challenges and deliver for the Welsh people. There is much work to be done, but above all else, my aim will be the best deal for the people of Wales.

I welcome the opportunity to participate in this debate today. Obviously, because of the referendum last Thursday, a clear mandate was given to the Governments of all parts of the United Kingdom now to enact those wishes. It was a clear commitment from Wales and other parts of the United Kingdom that they wished to rebalance their relationship with the European Union. The negotiations will start, and start over the next couple of months and years, and it is vital that Wales’s voice is heard. As the Prime Minister stated on the steps of No. 10 Downing Street on Friday morning—he specifically mentioned the important role that Wales, that Scotland, that Northern Ireland and, obviously, Westminster will play in these negotiations.

It would be right to pay tribute to the role the Prime Minister has played over the last six and a half years as the Prime Minister, but also, as leader of my own party for 10 years, as leader of the opposition as well. You can look at the—[Interruption.] You can look at the changes that have been made. It really is regrettable, when we’ve had comments today about language—I think the First Minister used the words ‘talking to one another again’—that comments are coming in about ‘stabbing in the back’. There’s no stabbing in the back if you have a principle and a belief, and you stand on one side of that principle and you stand before the electorate; that is political debate. If that type of rhetoric is coming from the Labour Party, there is no wonder that 17 out of the 22 electoral divisions clearly turned their back on the message that you were trying to give out in this referendum.

That is the important thing, going forward. We have reached out after this referendum to work constructively to make sure that Wales does not lose out in these negotiations, that Wales’s voice is heard, going forward, and, above all, the importance of making sure that support is there, going forward, and is continued. But, when we woke up on Friday morning with the referendum, the schemes that were in place had not come to an end. The payments into the European Union and out to the European Union continue until the negotiations are concluded. It is important that those discussions continue and that reassurance is given.

I appreciate that people on the ‘remain’ side of the argument would wish the will of the people not to be heard and actually point the finger and continue to say, ‘We told you so’. But it is a fact—[Interruption.] It is a fact—[Interruption.] It is a fact that what we need to do on all sides of the referendum is come together and make this work. [Interruption.] So, we innovate, we invest and we build. That’s what we do—we innovate in the way we do business, we innovate with the way we deliver for people’s aspirations. We cannot say that business is to continue as normal. This referendum was a clear mandate. We invest in the opportunities and create a global Britain, a global Wales—looking out.

Ultimately, people in this Chamber—and I understand why, because you were clearly on the other side of the argument—. It is vital—it is vital—that the opportunities that lie before us are actually grasped and delivered, and I believe those opportunities are there and they can be secured. [Interruption.] I appreciate you might not wish to listen to what I’ve said, but I have clearly highlighted—[Interruption.] I have clearly highlighted the opportunities that are available to us. Sadly, the First Minister, in his response to me in First Minister’s questions, clearly indicated he was not interested in taking those discussions forward.

The First Minister rose—

I am grateful. I want to give him the opportunity to outline the opportunities. Perhaps he could name three.

I believe there are huge opportunities—[Interruption.]—investment, innovation and to build a better, brighter future for global Britain, global Wales, and that is built on prosperity for all the regions of the United Kingdom and countries of the United Kingdom. That is what people want, and that is what we will secure if we make sure that we grab the opportunities before us. We will succeed, because the people have given us the mandate to do that, and we will succeed in living up to their aspirations. But, ultimately, if you choose to continue the campaign that was fought in the referendum, we will let people down.

From what I’ve just heard, it’s clear that the ‘leave’ campaigners have no plan and no clue about what we do next. That contribution that you just made gave us nothing tangible whatsoever. Last Thursday, Wales narrowly voted to leave the European Union, and the referendum campaign itself saw a tone of bitterness and uneasiness descend across the country and across the United Kingdom as a whole. The UK Government will hand the poisoned chalice of Brexit to a new prime minister in October. The terms of Brexit remain unknown, as we have just seen. The main UK opposition, the Labour Party, has also descended into deep chaos and is in no position now to provide any leadership. And, for Plaid Cymru, being on the losing side of this debate is also a reality check for us. People who don’t necessarily disagree with Plaid Cymru on all of our policies have turned against Brussels as a source of anger and frustration, and for a whole host of different reasons. Yet, we must remember that 48 per cent of the Welsh public did vote to remain. That represents over 772,000 people. Those ‘remain’ voters should be treated with the respect they deserve by any incoming UK Government and they should be offered a positive future here in Wales too.

Llywydd, the ‘leave’ campaign secured their victory on the basis of a vow to people here in Wales. The leader of the Conservative group here said that up to £490 million a year would be available to Wales, which we could choose to spend on our NHS. This represents a sum of money over and above what has usually been predicted through the reform of the Barnett formula. The ‘leave’ campaign also vowed that all of Wales’s structural funds and agricultural funds would be protected, and, in their vow, they also included the funds that benefit our universities, and our science and our technology sectors. They also said that the UK could take control of its own borders and could also continue to trade with the European Union. The leader of UKIP in Wales said that the only people who would lose their jobs would be the UK’s Members of the European Parliament. Time will tell whether this vow will be upheld, but, in reality, the promise of £490 million per year seems to have disappeared already. We must accept that the result was to leave, but we must also accept that that vote was secured on a false prospectus.

We in Wales also now face a changing United Kingdom. There’s a strong possibility that, in a few years’ time, the United Kingdom of last Wednesday will no longer exist. This referendum, rather than uniting the United Kingdom, has divided it, with respect to Scotland and Northern Ireland. When that new situation emerges, it’s my view that people in Wales deserve to have a say on Wales’s place in the new context. That must include the option of becoming a full partner in these islands, as an independent state, on the condition that we retain a union structure between Wales, England and other relevant nations.

Plaid Cymru will also turn its hand to the immediate situation facing the country, as people worry about their jobs, their livelihoods and their pensions. We will hold the ‘leave’ campaign to account on its vow to Wales, including any incoming UK Government. We will take steps to strengthen Wales’s position constitutionally, in no way representing the ‘leave’ vote as a vote to concentrate further powers in Westminster. We are ready to co-operate with others in ensuring the continued existence of Wales as a nation in its own right, but we are clear that the national debate must include all options and that Wales must not be a silent partner in the UK debate.

Last Thursday’s vote gives us something that I would have thought Plaid Cymru would welcome—it’s called national independence; they seem to be somewhat afraid of this. But, now we have the opportunity to make decisions for ourselves. The EU funding that has been referred to so many times in this Chamber today can now be returned to us, whether it be to the Parliament of Westminster or this Assembly in Cardiff. And, it’s our priorities, not the priorities of the European Commission, which will matter. And we are accountable, as are Members of Parliament, to the electorates of the various parts of the United Kingdom, and we will answer for our decisions at the ballot box, and that is how it should be.

I’ve always said that this debate about the European Union was not about nationalism, but about democracy. I approve and applaud the spirit in which the First Minister made his statement a moment ago, which concentrated on being outward looking and forward looking in Wales, and not using the language such as we’ve just heard from the leader of Plaid Cymru about how Brexit is a poisoned chalice. It’s a great opportunity for Wales to advertise itself in the world, and its own natural abilities and entrepreneurship can be given full vent.

Yes, it is true there are uncertainties as a result of the vote last Thursday, in the same way as there were uncertainties when we joined the European Union, or the Common Market, as it then was, on 1 January 1973. There will be consequential changes, there’s absolutely no doubt about that. But what an opportunity there is. Why would the European Union want to raise trade barriers against the United Kingdom when we have £100 billion a year trade deficit with them, when, with the car trade in Germany alone, we have an £11 billion a year trade deficit? The car manufacturers of Germany are not going to want to see 10 per cent tariffs on trade between us because they will come off very much the worse for wear as a result of that. We have a £10 billion deficit on food, for example, in this country, compared with the rest of the European Union. So Britain’s farmers, again, should have no cause to fear for the consequences of last Thursday’s vote.

But, it does give us the opportunity, as I said in my questions to the First Minister earlier on, to devise policies that suit our own farmers now in Wales, and other industries as well. As regards steel, for example, we now have the opportunity to resume our place on the World Trade Organization board, and we then have the freedom to introduce tariffs, in the same way as the United States, on cold-rolled steel.

I’m not sure whether it’s possible to give way—

You are allowed to give way, but it’s your choice.

Can I make an intervention? You’ve just highlighted the possibility of putting tariffs upon imported steel into the UK. That clearly will put tariffs on exporting steel from the UK as a consequence. Since over 50 per cent of the steel in Port Talbot actually goes to the EU, are you therefore closing down Port Talbot by the introduction of such tariffs?

No, no. The whole point of the anti-dumping legislation, which you can use under the World Trade Organization rules, is it’s only where steel is exported to your country below cost on the world market, which is not the case with steel produced in the European Union, but it is the case with steel produced in China, which is the cause of all the problems—[Interruption]. I didn’t vote against it, at all. [Interruption]. My party did not vote against it, so you are misinformed, but that’s not a surprise, is it?

So, the single market is not the be-all and the end-all of this, because the average tariff that the EU applies against other countries in the world, exporting into the single market, is only 4 per cent. There are higher tariffs on specific industries, of course, and cars is one of them.

We should negotiate a free trade agreement with the European Union. That’s what I personally would like to see and my party would like to see. The trouble is, the European Union is not terribly good at negotiating free trade agreements, because there are only two of them—Mexico and South Korea. There are other customs union agreements, but, generally speaking, the trade agreements with countries like India, or the United States, get mired for years on end in endless discussion, because we have to get agreement from 27 member states. That’s one of the problems with the EU—its sclerotic nature, because of the inflexibility imposed upon it by its constitutional structure.

The German Chancellor has said today that Britain can’t expect to be cherry pickers in the negotiations that are now going to start, and I fully understand that. I don’t want to pick any cherries; I just want generalised free trade with the European Union, on a fair and free basis. That’s all Britain should want to ask for, and that’s all that the EU is being asked to concede, which would be mutually beneficial. Trade takes place because it benefits both the seller and the buyer—otherwise, it wouldn’t occur.

So, there’s no reason to be pessimistic, apart from the irrationality of politicians who are involved in the negotiations on either side. There is no reason to be pessimistic about Wales’s prospects. To say that the result last Thursday was obtained by means of putting forward a false prospectus on the part of the ‘leave’ campaign is, of course, nonsense. The ‘leave’ campaign was not a single, cohesive unit; it was a loose coalition of different forces, different parties, different interest groups, and we all have different ideas about how the future should look.

So, all I will say is, to reiterate what I said earlier on in this Chamber to the First Minister, that UKIP will play its full part in assisting him to get the best possible deal as part of his negotiations both with the UK Government and with the European Union. I hope that he will want to involve other minor parties in this house in this process because I think that we can help to give his negotiations greater credibility and greater force, because, with a unanimous voice, in this respect if in no other, we are certainly better, stronger and safer when we act together.

Yesterday, I joined young people on the steps of the Senedd—people mainly from Cardiff and the Vale and some from further afield—who came to the Senedd calling for a second referendum and for votes for 16 and 17-year-olds, and I think it’s important in this debate that we do acknowledge and state how people have felt as a result of this vote. Jane Hutt, as the Assembly Member for the Vale of Glamorgan, was also there, and I think we were made aware of the passionate feelings by these young people, about the frustration that they felt about having had no say in this vote and the fact that the younger people who did vote voted overwhelmingly to remain—73 per cent of 18 to 24-year-olds voted to remain. I just think it’s important for us to remember—. We’ve commented, I think, about the divide in communities, but we must also note this divide in the different age groups. I think that the young people did feel so frustrated because they felt that the opportunities were being closed down to them and that they wouldn’t have the opportunity to do many of the things that they’d been able to until now—[Interruption.] Certainly.

Thank you very much for taking the intervention there, Julie. Were you as disappointed as I was that more young people didn’t register to vote and, therefore, when they’re making the claim that, perhaps, older people have voted in a way that disadvantages them, they missed their own opportunity to make their voice heard?

Certainly, I would have welcomed a much higher registration of young people and a much higher percentage vote. I certainly accept that, but I want to draw attention to the feeling of the young people who weren’t able to vote, and who did vote and who wanted to express their frustration about the result of the referendum. And, as I say, they were calling for votes for 16 and 17-year-olds, and I know that’s something that this Assembly may be able to address in the future when the Wales Bill goes through. But, their other call was for a second referendum. I believe that we do have to respect the views that have been shown by the people of Wales but that the Welsh Government should do all it possibly can to find ways to enable Wales to continue to have as many of the benefits of being in the EU as we possibly can because Wales has had huge benefits from the EU.

We also have to accept that, as has already been said this afternoon, it was actually a close vote in Wales. Cardiff, of course, the capital, voted 60-40 to remain, and this vote was reflected all over the UK. Basically, many of the larger cities did vote to remain, including London, Bristol and Edinburgh. The figures in Wales were 52.5 per cent to leave and 47.5 per cent to remain, and I do consider that a close vote. But, it’s interesting and, compared with other parts of the UK where there’s a similar sort of demography and also a small middle class, such as the north-east of England, 58 per cent voted to leave, and in the west midlands, it was 59.3 per cent to leave. In Wales, it was a close result, and, of course, Nigel Farage himself said in the expectation of a narrow majority for ‘in’ that there would be a case for a second referendum. So, I think the result is not a very definite result. I think it is a narrow margin of victory for ‘leave’ and I think the it would be the right thing to do to use any opportunity to check that this is really what the people of Wales wanted, when you consider the benefits that Wales has had from EU funding, especially when many of the things that were said to persuade people to vote have consequently turned out to be made of dust. Also, the point has already been made about the breakup of the UK, which is likely, with Scotland preparing for legislation for a second independence vote. Surely, if that does happen, if that proposal is there, Wales does need to have a chance to have its say on that.

I’m very pleased that the First Minister has said that, after the terms of exit are agreed, he will be seeking the opportunity for Wales and the other countries of the UK to give their view. Again, I think, at that point, there would be the opportunity to seek the views of the people as well as the views of the Members of this house.

So, lastly, I think we must try to continue—to think that Wales can continue its links with the rest of Europe, and we’ll have to make very definite, very positive efforts to do that. Things like Cardiff being a member of the EUROCITIES network, for example; that is a way that we can continue to reach out and benefit from funding for that particular network. Thank you.

It is with deep regret that this debate today on Wales and the EU occurs in the shadow of the decision of a majority of our fellow citizens to withdraw from the European Union, but that was their democratic right, and they have exercised it. But a vow was made to the people of this country, as the leader of the opposition has said. It was a specific vow, and it was repeated. It included a commitment to increase spending on the national health service, it included a commitment that the British state would cover every penny of lost EU funding to farmers and in aid to deprived communities. Plaid Cymru waits with anticipation for the emergence, for the first time in history, of a British Prime Minister in Downing Street, in September, announcing a record, unprecendented increase in investment in Wales. That new Prime Minister will have to do so without any savings from European membership because, as we learned over the weekend, the Brexit plan may include membership of the European Economic Area, which comes with a substantial membership fee. A vow was made to the people of this country, many of whom live in the poorest communities of this continent. Plaid Cymru will not allow those people to be lied to. They stand to lose too much.

Llywydd, in the weeks leading up to the appointment of a new Prime Minister, it is crucial that the Welsh Government works to further, as best it can, the Welsh national interest. And I would like to make a specific suggestion to the First Minister, which I hope he’ll consider over the coming days as part of his Government’s response. Will he compile and publish for debate in this Assembly a national mitigation plan for Wales, based on three broad strands? Firstly, the steps that can be taken internally, within Wales, to support those communities that are facing the greatest uncertainty, like west Wales and the Valleys, which will be seeking alternative sources of aid, and rural communities, which will require greater levels of financial support. Will he also consider bringing forward, as part of this strand, an economic fairness Bill, so that we have a regional development policy to support all corners of our nation, using the limited capital powers we have to best effect?

Secondly as part of this national mitigation plan, we suggest a second strand to look at changes needed at the British Isles level that further the Welsh national interest. For example, will the First Minister look at advocating the creation of an investment bank of the isles, along the European Investment Bank model, to provide finance for schemes that would otherwise be funded by the EIB, and also perhaps as a mechanism for the delivery of a new structural funds programme to replace those that will be lost as a result of our withdrawal from the European Union? Would he also consider publishing proposals for the immediate constitutional changes needed to strengthen Wales’s position so that we are not now incorporated into a monstrous England-and-Wales entity that works against our national interests?

And, finally, as part of the third strand of this national mitigation plan, will the First Minister consider addressing Wales’s place in the international community, including, of course, the new relationship we’ll have to build with other European countries? Specifically, will he seek full and unfettered access for Welsh Government to the British state’s diplomatic network, so that a distinct Welsh voice for securing trade and building relations can be established across Europe and the wider world? The First Minister should also consider renewing efforts to attract other countries to open diplomatic missions here in Cardiff as part of this process.

Llywydd, whatever way people voted last week, many on all sides will be looking to the future anxiously. A sad irony of the referendum campaign was a fundamental, and, in my opinion, intentional misunderstanding of the principle of ever closer union. That part of EU treaties, of course, refers to the ever closer union of the peoples, not the Governments, of Europe. My hope, perhaps against all odds, is that the people of this nation can continue to stand with the peoples of this continent, and that the dream of Wales in Europe will never die.

With turnout almost 60 per cent higher than in May’s Assembly election, Welsh voters have spoken and we must all respect the results. This was about the democratic right of the people of this nation to settle their own destiny. Labour’s leader in Westminster is facing a vote of no confidence from his own MPs, despite a large majority voting for remain in his own constituency. Here in Wales, the First Minister and leader of the opposition both campaigned to stay in the EU, but the people in their own constituencies voted to leave.

People have told me that they now have the right to expect a different kind of politics emanating from Cardiff bay and the Senedd. The First Minister now needs to demonstrate his ability to provide leadership on this issue that reflects the views of all parties and all the people of Wales.

As the Prime Minister said in his resignation speech, negotiation with the European Union will need to involve the full engagement of the devolved Governments to ensure that the interests of all parts of the United Kingdom are protected and advanced. We must first ensure that the money that was going into structural funds and the common agricultural policy continues. We must then ensure that Wales receives its share of the repatriated money left over. And a new committee of Assembly Members must be established to drive forward Wales’s response to the EU referendum, reflective in its make-up of Welsh public opinion.

The Prime Minister has given us time to decide what Britain’s new relationship with Europe should be by delaying article 50 notification under the Lisbon treaty, which will trigger a two-year time period to negotiate the arrangements for exit unless the European Council, in agreement with the member state concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period. In the meantime, there will be no change to people’s rights to travel and work and to the way our goods and services are traded, or to the way our economy and financial system is regulated.

As Boris Johnson has said, we cannot turn our backs on Europe—we are part of Europe. We condemn unreservedly the racist abusers seeking to exploit the referendum result. We must be a model of a multi-racial, multi-faith, equal opportunity democracy.

The knee-jerk reaction from financial markets was predictable, speculative and excessive, and an objective view is needed as markets begin to calm down. The Treasury, Bank of England and Financial Conduct Authority put in place robust contingency plans for the immediate financial aftermath of a ‘leave’ vote. The UK will still be in the G7, International Monetary Fund and the United Nations Security Council. Our security has always depended on the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, and Britain will also continue to discuss defence—[Interruption.]—and intelligence-sharing with European partners. One intervention only.

Thank you very much for giving way. Just in response to some of your comments on tolerance, do you align yourself with the ‘breaking point’ poster?

No, I don’t.

Our security, as I say, has always depended on NATO. Outside the EU, we regain the freedom to forge trade deals while continuing to trade with our partners in Europe. The UK is responsible for approximately 5.5 million jobs across Europe. The EU will not want a trade war; they’ll want free trade. Markus Kerber, head of the BDI—Germany’s Confederation of British Industry—has urged Germany and the EU to draw up a post-Brexit free trade regime that enables them to uphold and maintain the levels of trade they have with the UK. The German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, has said that the European Union has

‘no need to be particularly nasty in any way’ in the negotiations with Britain about its exit from the EU. President Obama has said the special relationship between the United States and Britain will endure in the aftermath of the UK’s exit from the European Union. Britain is, after all, America’s largest inward investor. The French President, François Hollande, has vowed to maintain relations with Britain, notably concerning migrants crossing between the two countries and military and economic co-operation. Canada’s Finance Minister said:

‘We respect the choice of the British people and will remain a strong partner of the UK and the EU. Our shared histories make us natural trading partners, and I look forward to maintaining those close economic ties.’

And I could go on, but time is too short. Britain is one of the world’s largest economies—a global country that already conducts more trade outside the EU than any other member state except Malta. Our only real threat comes from the voice of destruction that seeks to dismember the United Kingdom, divide its peoples, diminish all its parts and damn a so-called independent Scotland to eurozone membership and a budget black hole. That is disgraceful. After all, it is the duty of us all to safeguard both the sovereignty and integrity of our United Kingdom.

There is no doubt that we all, collectively as a nation and as a people, are standing at the cusp of a new social and economic future and that our people are bitterly divided and we must now come together to tackle our future. Though we must accept the democratic mandate and will of the people, we must also all acknowledge the narrow margin, as has been referenced earlier, and the significant effect already on Wales. It is imperative today that we hold the UK Government and the Prime Minister, as has already been said, to account and that they give and deliver on their false promises to Wales and give our money back that they promised to the Welsh people during the ‘leave’ campaign, which we currently send to the EU. Or is that a con? Every single penny must be made up that Wales loses from leaving Europe, or otherwise there is a democratic deficit and the people have been conned and the people have been misled and the people have been lied to.

There is no doubt that this referendum has turned family member against family member and friend against friend. There is no doubt that, today, more than ever, it is time for our country to find unity and strength of purpose in moving forward. There is equally no doubt, as has been said already, that racism is on the increase and that all of us should be condemning these acts of racial hate crime. Today, Welsh Government is committed and united in working to get the best possible outcomes for Wales post-Brexit and to get the best possible outcomes for the Welsh people; every sinew and breath of this administration will be utilised by Welsh Government to engender positive effects out of this unprecedented peacetime context, and, vitally, every effort will be undertaken to negotiate the best deal for Wales and Welsh business and Welsh jobs. Welsh Government will seek to nurture and engage the best possible marketplace and tariffs for Welsh goods sold in the EU, and it is in the best interests of Welsh agriculture and fisheries that this is done. However, much of this will not be reliant on us and Welsh Government, and it will not be in our gift. Today, it is absolute fact and not fiction that there are significant and considerable impacts already hitting the UK’s shores as a direct result of this referendum.

We now have a seismic, volatile and difficult context for Wales in which to create certainty, clarity and needed positive outcomes, and it is critical that everyone understands that context. It is relevant and it is a direct result of the nation’s ‘leave’ vote that this Friday, for instance, the UK has already seen over the weekend that it has lost its AAA status, that the pound has already hit its lowest level since 1985, that key Welsh businesses and inward investors have expressed publicly grave concern over a tariff-based future with the EU single market. And there is a plummeting confidence in manufacturing and beyond due to uncertainty over implementation of the article 50 timescale. This is uncertainty that could affect Welsh jobs. It is a reality for our Welsh people that there is a negative effect on resolving the Tata solution and on Welsh jobs. This is backed up, not by politicians, but by Airbus, Ford and others.

Despite such a difficult and troubling context, the UK people have voted as a majority through a democratic process and have given a democratic mandate to leave, which the UK Government must now honour and respect as the will of the people, but alongside the money pledged by the UK in the ‘leave’ campaign. This is fundamental, and we must admit that the arguments for remain did not get through, but it is equally right and proper that facts are understood, that the public discern the issues of importance from the froth and that considerable challenges, which I've outlined and that, no doubt, lie ahead, are understood by the people. It is a hard fact that the media have played a lacklustre role in presenting the facts and arguments, and that it’s argued politicians have also failed to set that agenda. The significant challenges for the UK now we will meet head-on and, in Wales, work to strategically overcome, I have no doubt, but it is vital that such significant economic, social and societal challenges are fully and properly understood. It is imperative that the interests of Wales and its people are at the forefront and front centre of our strategy, and that this vacuum created by political turmoil and uncertainties across the UK that we’re all facing is re-stitched as swiftly as possible. Diolch.

I would also like thank the First Minister for his statement on Friday and for bringing forward this important debate today. On Thursday, the people of the United Kingdom spoke and spoke loudly. They said: ‘Britain is better off outside the European Union’. It’s highly regrettable that the Prime Minister who gave us this referendum did not have the courage to see it through to its conclusion. However, it’s important that we all now work together to deliver the best deal for Wales and the UK. Our exit negotiations should not be overshadowed by internal strife and leadership campaigns in both the Conservative and Labour parties. There are those who seek to dismiss the views of the nearly 17.5 million British voters who voted to leave the EU. They may not like the results, but we live in a democracy, and that’s how democracy works: the majority rule. If we look at the referendum that led to the creation of our Assembly, that result was much, much closer, yet there wasn’t a clamour from the ‘no’ camp, seeking to circumvent the wishes of the electorate or looking to creatively negate the result. The people of the UK have made it clear: they are fed up with unelected bureaucrats telling them what to do. They want out of the EU, and it’s up to us, their elected representatives, to see that their wishes are fulfilled—[Interruption.] Sorry, is it an intervention you want? [Interruption.] Stand for election? Yes, I did.

You don’t need to listen to Ministers who are making comments from their seats. You carry on with your contribution.

I was elected. We have to ignore dodgy petitions, political self-interest—yes, there have been petitions which have proved to have inaccuracies on them, online—and political self-interest and those who claim that the United Kingdom cannot stand alone. We have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to get a great deal for Wales and Great Britain, and I urge all sides to work together to get the terms of our exit right. We deplore any acts of discrimination and spitefulness towards any person.

Will you take an intervention?

Yes, I will.

Do you not agree with me that some of the rhetoric that we’ve heard from UKIP representatives has actually fed that resentment and racism that we’ve seen?

I can assure you, you haven’t heard it from me, and these people here you haven’t heard it from either. To whom are you referring?

Will you take a further intervention?

I will.

We had a question earlier today suggesting that some people who are legitimately in this country, seeking refuge are here—and the question was about the cost of those people. Surely, humanitarian considerations should come first?

It was a different question, I admit, but it was a question that was asked by the constituents—no, not by UKIP, by the gentleman’s constituents.

Are you associating yourself with the question?

I wouldn’t take a further intervention, if I were you. I’d carry on.

No problem.

To those who wish to derail our exit and hinder our progress on securing a great deal, I urge you to listen to the British people who delivered a clear mandate for Brexit. To our Scottish cousins, I say: you cannot derail our exit. Scottish voters may have voted in favour of remaining in the EU, but they also voted overwhelmingly to remain in the UK not so very long ago. Members, we have to carry out the democratic wishes of our UK voters. We have to ensure that our constituents who are in receipt of EU funding for their businesses and companies are not let down by the terms of our exit. We have to ensure that our exit deal delivers for Wales and the United Kingdom. We have to face down those seeking to divide our nation—[Interruption.] Exactly, divisiveness doesn’t pay—but above all, we also have to ensure we capitalise on the opportunities presented to us by our decision to leave the EU.

Finally, Llywydd, we must remember that we are all elected by the public—all. We represent them whether they voted for us or not, and my pen writes the same for every constituent, regardless of how they voted and who they voted for. Thank you.

Dawn Bowden—[Interruption.] Dawn Bowden.

Diolch, Lywydd. I was hugely disappointed at the outcome of the EU referendum. Throughout the campaign, I sought to truthfully set out some of the dangers as I saw them, on leaving the EU. I campaigned from both my heart and my head on what I genuinely believed was the best for some of the most deprived communities; not just in Wales, but across the UK.

What is clear is that many people voted on things that they believed would result from us leaving the EU, in particular, an end to immigration. This was fuelled by the leave campaign and the reactionary and disgraceful right-wing media that shamed this country. For many, it was also a desperate vote for change from people who’ve now suffered years of Tory-imposed austerity. Many people thought that anything must be better than what they have now. We now know clearly that the leave campaigners both misled and lied to the British public with promises of £350 million a week for the NHS and how immigration would be controlled. That has not only reinforced mistrust in politicians, but it has also made many start to regret having voted to leave.

One of my other fears of a ‘leave’ vote has always been the impact that it would have on workers’ rights. We’ve already seen leading Brexiteers advocating the removal of workers’ rights as part of any exit negotiations.

Incidentally, Llywydd, it is worth noting that the restrictions placed on trade union strike ballots in the Tory Trade Union Act 2016, supported by most Brexiteers, would’ve invalidated this referendum result, because, apparently, strike ballots are far too important to allow a simple majority of those voting to determine an outcome, but a simple majority on the whole future of our nation for generations to come is not.

Perhaps the most distressing manifestation of the leave vote, as has been said by many Members here today, is the widespread incidence of overt and public racism that we have witnessed since this result was announced. I hope everyone in this Chamber is appalled by this, will reject it totally and will stand up to defend and protect anyone subject to such hatred—hatred fuelled by the anti-immigration rhetoric of the ‘leave’ campaign.

Now, while it is true that people voted to leave for a number of reasons, some of those were not to do with the EU at all—that does not mean that we should not listen to their concerns. We have to accept the outcome was what it was and I would now argue strongly that we need to put an end to the uncertainty pervading the country and invoke article 50 without delay. Those leading the ‘leave’ campaign should’ve had in place a strategy to enable them to be ready to negotiate a swift and structured exit, to settle the money markets, to protect people’s jobs, pensions, homes and investments and perhaps more importantly, the future of our young people. But as we know, they do not.

Llywydd, I mention our young people, as one thing that impressed me during the campaign was their knowledge and understanding of the issues at stake—far greater, perhaps, than many two or three times their age. As Julie Morgan mentioned, many of them didn’t get a vote.

Will you take an intervention?

No, I won’t. At the weekend, I met Alex, a 14-year-old girl from the Gurnos, who said to me, ‘Why have old people thrown away our future?’ Unfortunately, I didn’t have an answer for her. So, for Alex and her friends and for the deprived communities in Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney and elsewhere, I urge the First Minister to be relentless in holding the exit proponents to account over promises that they made. I know he will work to ensure that Wales does not lose a penny in regeneration, inward investment and development funds and will seek to secure significant increases in funding to Wales under a revised Barnett formula to make up any shortfall.

Finally, Llywydd, as the Brexiteers need to be held to account on any proposed Brexit settlement, they will require a further endorsement and mandate by the British public, and I look forward to hearing how we will be consulted on that settlement, as no settlement can have any validity without the express agreement of the British people.

Well, what happened on Thursday matters. It matters bone, blood and breath, and the ramifications will extend down the generations. It matters here, it matters in Europe, and it also says an awful lot about the state of Western democracies. It also spoke of something very specific, and that was our membership of the EU, but the wider lessons, I think, are for all of us who are in this Assembly to bear in mind as we serve out our mandate in this, the fifth Assembly, and it’s a lesson, I think, politicians across the world will have to take as well.

But what’s immediately important is to work out what sort of relationship we should now have with the EU, and that does come down to what sort of access or membership of the single market we should now enjoy. This cannot be ducked, it has to be faced and it is the biggest thing that will determine our relationship in the future and will be at the heart of securing our economic prospects. I thought the Prime Minister was quite right yesterday in emphasising, in response to a question from an SNP Member, that Britain was built on an economic union and we now need that union to flourish, but also the single market that’s been established, as a British policy, largely, from the mid-1980s, in Europe.

The Welsh economy is the most vulnerable in the UK, it seems to me, so it’s most dependent on us getting an effective, constructive and productive relationship with the EU. I do hope that all Brexiteers will focus on that and now live up to their assurances that they remain, at heart, true Europeans—a different version of Europe; I’m prepared to believe that—as we now work through the detail. But it’s not going to be easy to achieve, because what sort of access we have to the single market, are we a member of EFTA or not, or the EEA—there are all sorts of implications to that sort of relationship. We have to expect rigour from those who will now be negotiating, and they may face considerable instability economically, as well, at the very time the negotiations we need to succeed most are being undertaken.

Many matters will also have to be examined about our future as a British state—what sort of Brexit UK will now emerge. It will have to adapt quite remarkably, in constitutional, fiscal and economic terms to survive. The chances of a Scottish secession have increased markedly. I don’t know if they’re probable yet, but we are at that tipping point, and whether we keep the union together will pretty much depend on what sort of vision we now have for the relationship we wish with the European Union.

It is very clear to me that strong Welsh interests now emerge well beyond partisanship. The UK is a union of nations, and that needs to be emphasised and remembered by policy makers in Westminster as they negotiate Brexit, and it’s something we need to remember. We are here—we are the forum of Welsh politics and that responsibility is something that we must embrace fully. To further agreed Welsh interests, I believe, therefore, that strong cross-party working should now be encouraged in the Assembly—both the Assembly and, possibly, also with the Government, as it co-operates with all the parties in this forum. Presiding Officer, the fifth Assembly will have to show itself to be a trusted forum for the advance and defence of Welsh interests in the remarkably challenging times that we now face. If we fail, that sad lament will ring out, ‘Cry, the beloved country’.

Jeremy Miles.

Thank you, Presiding Officer, for the opportunity to contribute to this important debate.

Roedd canlyniad y refferendwm yr wythnos diwethaf yn siom enbyd. Mae'r ffaith y byddai Cymru yn dewis gwrthod y berthynas sydd wedi bod mor amlwg o fuddiol iddi yn her i bob un ohonom yn y lle hwn, ac mae'n rhaid i ni ymateb yn bendant, ac nid â rhethreg hawdd. Byddai’r golled i Gymru o gannoedd o filiynau o bunnoedd o incwm bob blwyddyn yn hynod niweidiol. Rydym eisoes wedi gweld, mewn llawer o'n cymunedau, effaith cyni ariannol Llywodraeth y DU, yn tynnu arian allan o aelwydydd ac allan o economïau lleol, ac mae hon yn her ar raddfa lawer, lawer mwy. Ynghyd ag ansicrwydd economaidd, yng Nghymru a ledled y DU, wrth i gwmnïau edrych yn anochel ar p'un a ydynt yn buddsoddi yma neu yn y DU sy’n parhau, rydym yn wynebu cyfnod trawmatig iawn, er gwaethaf optimistiaeth heulog y ddau Bollyanna anhebygol, arweinydd y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig ac arweinydd UKIP.

Dydw i ddim eisiau bod mewn sefyllfa lle mae Cymru yn gymwys i gael cymorth rhanbarthol—nid oes yr un ohonom eisiau hynny. Rwyf am i'n heconomi fod yn ddigon cadarn i beidio â bod angen hyn ac i ffynnu, a’n prif flaenoriaeth, wrth raid, yw polisi economaidd sy'n gwneud hynny’n bosibl.

Thank you very much for taking the intervention, and I agree with your words that we shouldn’t be proud of the fact that we’ve needed convergence funding for this period of time. We’re on the same side on this, but I’m sure you will join with me with disliking, shall we say, some of the tone of the London left-leaning papers that have characterised our constituents who voted ‘leave’ as being thoughtless and, more importantly, thankless for the money that’s come from Europe to help support those communities. Do you accept, though, that the Welsh Government may have to take some responsibility for not convincing those particular communities that money has come from Europe and helped them, rather than coming directly from the Welsh Assembly, and what have we learnt, all of us, from that about how we convey how money is used in our communities and who’s responsible for the decisions?

Thank you for that intervention. I do take the point that there’s been very unhelpful comment in some of the press about the response of our communities. I don’t take the other point that you raised, but I take that point, certainly.

In fact, promises have been made in this campaign, and they’ve been mentioned again today on many occasions, and in my view, what the people of Wales voted for last week was, yes, to come out of the EU, but also for the funding that Wales currently receives from the EU to be made good by the British Government. The Brexit decision for us in Wales means both these things together, and how we respond to that decision in this place is critical. I don’t, myself, detect in the result any public yearning at the moment for a devolution settlement much broader than that which we are already discussing, though it remains to be seen whether that continues to be the case as the future of the United Kingdom unfolds. But I do believe that people voting to leave the EU did so in the firm belief that the projects, the infrastructure, the skills programmes, and so on that form an essential part of their communities would in some form continue. And so, we must respond to that in a tangible way. I believe now is the time to settle the question of how Wales is funded from Westminster and to put it on a firm footing. A new funding commitment must reflect the different needs of the people of Wales, and it must reflect, in full, the loss of European funding. HM Treasury, we are led to believe, will now make a significant saving every year, while the Welsh treasury must receive its fair share of that. Promises have been made, and now is the time for them to be kept.

So, I believe we need to include within the statutory architecture of an emerging Welsh constitution a guarantee in law of funding. It must describe the high-level principles underpinning a fair funding formula. The former First Minister, Rhodri Morgan, has referred to equality and redistribution as the guiding principles in this respect, and he must also describe how disputes over that funding would be resolved.

I don’t believe the Welsh public will thank us if we respond to their verdict—which is, I believe, in part about the relevance of political life to their lives—by extensive debate about the form and powers of Westminster and Cardiff Bay. If we’ve been told anything by people across Wales, it’s that we need to do more to deal with the bread-and-butter issues, the daily struggles that our communities face. But, equally, we will not be forgiven if we fail to deliver, as a result of this vote, a settlement for Wales that addresses, not just the question of our formal relationship with the European Union, but also a fair and secure foundation for the future funding of Wales.

First of all, I cannot believe that the Labour Party are still in denial about the true desires and aspirations of the working-class people of Wales. I have to say that they’re talking about just 2 or 4 per cent difference in the ‘in’ and the ‘out’ vote; well, in places such as Torfaen, Blaenau Gwent and many other parts of those Welsh Labour strongholds, it was something like 60 per cent to 40 per cent—and they’re still in denial about what the people want. Well, the truth of the matter is, of course, you’ve been in denial all along, because the European election results in Wales in 2014, where the UK Independence Party almost became the first party in over 100 years to beat the Labour Party in a national election, followed, of course, by the election of seven AMs to the Senedd in May from a party whose raison d’être was to leave the EU, should have been a wake-up call, not just to Labour, but to every party in Wales with a pro-European agenda. Incredibly, this was not to be the case. All of these parties elected to ignore the will of the Welsh people. The result on Thursday was a direct consequence of the disconnection of the established parties with the Welsh electorate, and not, as has been promulgated over the last few days, the result of any so-called misinformation on behalf of the ‘leave’ side, or even the relentless fear tactics employed by the ‘remain’ campaign.

However, this is not the time for anybody involved in the ‘out’ campaign to gloat at the outcome, particularly those of us in the Welsh Assembly. The implications of this referendum are far too important for any such indulgence.

Would you give way?

Yes, okay.

Thank you. I accept your point that the result has exposed a deep disillusion for many people in working-class communities. I don’t accept it’s just about the EU. It represents a far deeper disconnect with the way that our economy works. But there’s now a challenge to those who made promises on the ‘leave’ campaign, because you made promises, and there’s a danger that if those aren’t kept, that disillusionment with politics as a process could be deeply toxic. So, what are you going to do to make sure that those who made claims and promises on your side honour those commitments?

Well, I welcome your intervention on that part, but you still seem to be in denial about the reasons why they voted to come out of the European Union. But I think what I’ll go on to say will probably answer the question that you’ve just asked, and that is that I said that the implications of this referendum are far too important for any such indulgence. I put it to you that this is a time for cross-party action and consensus as never before. We who were involved in the ‘out’ campaign must and will support wholeheartedly any moves by the Welsh Government to secure not only the funds already promised to Wales by the Westminster Government, together, of course, with its commitment to honour the funding of all those projects now capitalised by the EU, but also to ensure that we get a fair share of those funds that Brexit will yield. I refer, of course, to the difference in what the UK pays into the European Union and that which it gives back. [Interruption.] No, I’m sorry.

Again, this is not a time for party-political bickering as to the outcome of the referendum. The people have spoken and it is up to us as a united Assembly to move forward to secure Wales’s future in this new political arena. Those same political pundits who had it so wrong on Europe are now predicting the break-up of the union. They will be proved wrong on that again. The union will remain fully intact and it is overwhelmingly the will of the Welsh people that we shall be part of that union.

Let us now help and trust the 40 MPs we sent to Westminster, most of whom are Labour MPs, as well as the Welsh Government, to secure the best possible outcome from this referendum on behalf of the Welsh people. The Welsh people have spoken. Let us respect their views. Just one small addendum: in 2010 Government figures showed that only 2.1 per cent of Welsh companies actually export to the EU. Let’s keep Wales’s exit from the EU in perspective. Thank you.

As with many others here today, Llywydd, I am hugely concerned at the vote to leave the European Union and its consequences. I do believe we are very much in uncharted waters now, and I feel very concerned for collective security and peace in Europe and beyond; our access, of course, to the single market, which is so important; inward investment and, indeed, general investment here in Wales and across the UK in our economy; and also, of course, in terms of loss of European funding.

One project that very much springs to mind is the metro, which I’m hugely supportive of, as I know many others here are also. I think it’s a big idea, in terms of our economy in south-east Wales, and in terms of connectivity on economic and social fronts. Now, it’s uncertain as to whether we will have the funds to take that project forward as intended and as quickly as intended, and I hope any uncertainty will be resolved as quickly as possible.

Also, as others have mentioned, Llywydd, I’m very, very concerned about community cohesion. It’s not just a matter of the direct attacks and, indeed, intimidation that people have experienced in the wake of the EU referendum result, but also the concern that has been generated in our communities. I think all of us can play a role here, at all levels of Government and civic society, in making it clear that we will stand up for people in our communities no matter what their background and no matter what their nationality or ethnicity. We all have a responsibility in these difficult times on that front.

The next matter I’d like to mention, which others have also covered, Llywydd, is poverty, alienation and exclusion. I think it’s absolutely clear, when we look at the voting and the pattern of voting, that many people in our communities had that sense of hopelessness and not faring well in economic terms and in terms of their quality of life at the moment. In most circumstances, it’s understandable that they, when given an opportunity, as they see it, to deliver a strong message to kick, as it were, what they see as the establishment, the political elite—however they term it—they will take that opportunity, sometimes almost regardless of the actual issues at stake. I think there was a strong element of that in this particular vote and we need to recognise that sentiment, not just for that particular vote but in general. We need to greatly increase our efforts to tackle poverty, to create more inclusiveness in our communities and to build our economy for the benefit of all.

Finally, Llywydd, I’d like to turn to internationalism and Wales, because I remember, being one of the original Members of the Assembly—there aren’t that many of us left now—that in the run-up to the establishment of the Assembly, and in its early months and years, a lot of people were very concerned about parochialism—that the Assembly would be inward looking and that Wales would become more inward looking and less outward facing. I’m pleased to say that I don’t think that was the experience at all. I think the Assembly and Wales have been very much outward facing, and Ministers, Assembly Members, civic society and organisations in Wales have been part of that.

There have been various channels and processes that have facilitated that. We’ve become members of lots of international groupings, but an awful lot of it revolves around our membership of the European Union, whether it’s Welsh Ministers attending Council of Ministers meetings and, indeed, speaking for Wales there, or whether it’s the Committee of the Regions or visits by Assembly Members and others to Brussels and elsewhere in Europe. There are many facets to that engagement, but an awful lot of it, of necessity, revolves around our membership of the European Union. We are part of Europe, we will continue to be part of Europe and we do need to look, I believe, at how we channel that engagement with Europe and European Union countries in the wake of this vote.

There are many other aspects, of course, that I’m hugely enthusiastic about in terms of our internationalism, like the programme for Africa, which I think has been a great success on so many fronts for Wales and the Welsh Government. But, certainly, European Union membership is at the heart of much of that international engagement.

So, in conclusion, Llywydd, I very much think that all of us here really—almost all of us anyway—would want to see a Wales open to the world and the world open to Wales. And, in the wake of this referendum result, it’s more important than ever that we work towards that internationalism, and that here in Wales we make sure that we are tolerant, we are inclusive, we are welcoming of difference. That’s the sort of Wales I want to see.

I call on the First Minister to reply to the debate.

Diolch, Lywydd. I knew, when this debate was tabled, and when it began, that we would spend much time I suppose re-running the events and arguments of last week. But the result is there. It’s right to say that it was close, but then the establishment of this institution was a close referendum result as well—subsequently, of course, much strengthened in 2011. I have to say to Caroline Jones that there were people trying to overturn the result. In 2001, the Conservative manifesto had a commitment to holding a referendum in order to allow people to overturn the result. That, fortunately, now is history. But it’s there: the result is there; there is no going back on it. To my mind, there is no call for a second referendum. I think there are great dangers in that. If there are calls for a second referendum, those who voted to leave will just get angrier and that anger will be translated into something more unpleasant. They will see that their majority view, as they see it, is trying to be undone, and there are great dangers there. So, I know that others have mentioned this, but I don’t think a second referendum is something that would be wise at this moment in time.

Could I turn to what the leader of the opposition said? He has positioned himself as somebody who can add to the debate—

Sorry, the leader of the opposition is female and is Plaid Cymru.

I beg your pardon; the leader of the Welsh Conservatives—old habits, I’m afraid. The leader of the Welsh Conservatives, what he said—he has put himself forward as somebody who can add to the vision of the future for Wales. What we had today was flowery waffle. He was asked—. [Interruption.] I’m trying to enter into the spirit of the debate and be kind. I asked him to give us some idea of the opportunities that exist and he failed to name any. Now, I don’t delight in that, because the danger is that those who have made promises on the ‘leave’ side see those promises fall apart. Those people who voted ‘leave’ will then take their anger out in different ways, and that will mean that we will see support for extreme, racist parties of the far right. That’s my great, great worry, and so there is a duty and a responsibility on all of us, including the ‘leave’ campaigners, to explain what happens next and do that quickly, rather than say, ‘Well, it’ll all be fine; there’ll be innovation here’ and whatever he said. We need more than waffle; we do need detail.

I do say to the leader of the Welsh Conservatives—I got it right this time—that this vote must not be used as a reason to leach powers away from the people of Wales. I have his exact words in front of me, what he said this afternoon. He said, and I quote:

‘It is vital that Wales’s interests are protected and secured—’

Fine.

‘—and communities which have had this money spent are given the confidence that the money will continue irrespective of whether it comes from the Treasury in London or Welsh Government.’

The Welsh Government can’t make that money up; I can tell you that now. And then he added:

‘That money could…come directly from Westminster…. Why should the Welsh Government handle the money?’

That’s what he said. I say this to him now: economic development is devolved.

Andrew R.T. Davies rose—

Of course.

Surely, that is a legitimate question to pose, and it is for us in this institution, as politicians—[Interruption.] And it is for us in this institution, and politicians of all colours, to make sure that the language that we settle on actually represents what will deliver the best deal for Wales. We have to pose the difficult questions to get the answers we require.

He has spent months and months complaining about money being controlled from Brussels, saying it should come to Wales, and is now saying that it should be controlled by the Treasury in London. That is not in keeping with devolution. That is not what was promised by the ‘leave’ campaign. It’s not what we will ever sign up to, or agree to, in this Assembly, on this side and others of the house. He has to stop thinking like somebody sitting in Westminster and thinking about somebody sitting in Wales, and start thinking about what it means for Wales. There is no cause, no cause whatsoever, for suggesting that the money that we received from Europe should not come to Wales, but apparently should sit in London, at the discretion of the Treasury as to how it’s spent. That’s what he said. And now he is caught by his own words, which he denied earlier in the Chamber. He needs to explain to his own party—if you could see their faces—. He needs to explain to his own party why it is, suddenly, that what was said, the promise that was made that this money would come to Wales, is now not going to come to Wales for this elected Assembly to decide how that money is spent. And that is a fundamental attack on devolution. Not repeated by UKIP—not repeated by UKIP. It shows the direction the Conservatives are going in.

I listened carefully to the other points that were made by other Members, particularly to the leader of the opposition, which I listened to carefully. She and I are not in the same position when it comes to what she has suggested today, which is independence in the EU, because the Welsh people have voted to leave the EU. I think there are difficulties in suggesting that way forward, when people have already said they want to leave. But it is right to say that constitutional change is needed. The UK cannot go on as it is, or it will not go on. I don’t share the Member David Rowlands’s optimism that the UK will continue forever and a day. This is the greatest threat to the UK that’s ever been posed. We see the opinion polls again in Scotland—not that anyone can trust polls, necessarily, but I do fear that what is happening in Scotland is very different to what was happening there in 2014, and there will be an effect on Wales. We know there’ll be an effect on Northern Ireland.

I am in this strange situation now, where, of the four in my household, I am the only one who will not in the future have a right to live and work anywhere in the EU. Everyone else will, because they’ve got dual nationality. And it shows that even families are in different positions because of the vote that happened last week.

We know that, in Northern Ireland, there are issues with the border, because it’s an open border, and the immigration policy on both sides of it will be different. And so there are great issues as to how that border will be monitored, and how that border will be patrolled. They are not issues that affect us directly in Wales, but they do affect the UK and its relationship with the European Union via that land border.

Can I deal with the issue of free trade? Access to the single market is absolutely fundamentally critical to the prosperity of Wales. If we do not have free and unfettered access to that single market, many of our businesses will be put at a disadvantage that their competitors elsewhere in the EU will not have. If you look at the automotive industry, there is a tariff on automotive parts of 5 per cent, a tariff on importing cars of 10 per cent; those are WTO rules. That affects so many of Wales’s automotive plants, not least my own in Bridgend. Unless there is a trade deal on the table that removes the fear and danger of tariffs, those plants will not be able to compete, because what they produce will automatically be more expensive than plants elsewhere. Now, the suggestion has been made, well, Europe exports more to the UK than the UK exports back. Well, the European Union is eight times bigger than the UK, so, in monetary terms, of course more is exported from the EU to Britain than the other way round. But, if you look at the percentages, nearly 50 per cent of what the UK exports goes to the EU. The movement back is between 7 per cent and 10 per cent. Actually, we are far more dependent on being able to export freely into the EU than the EU is to us.

If we look at the car market, people have said, ‘Well, German car manufacturers will want to export’. The difficulty is that makes like BMW can export with a 10 per cent tariff and people will still buy them, because people see it as a prestigious car to buy. It doesn’t apply to all car makes, and that’s the danger that we face. So, it is absolutely critical that the free movement of goods and services continues between the UK and the EU.

Now, we have to remember that, in the negotiations that will take place, the UK Government will, inevitably, take the lead. We will have our own method of discussion with the EU. But the UK Government will negotiate mainly as the UK Government, but sometimes as the Government of England, when it comes to agriculture and fisheries. It won’t negotiate as the UK at all times. That’s why, to me, it is absolutely critical that, when there is a deal on the table, it is ratified separately by each of the national parliaments. Then we will get proper buy-in to any trade deal. It is not good enough simply for the Parliament in Westminster to ratify it, when there are some areas like agriculture and fisheries, which are wholly devolved, which will be affected. And so, this elected legislature must have a strong say—indeed, a ratification process for that.

The Member Steffan Lewis raised some important points. He discussed first of all—talked first of all—about the need for an economic fairness Bill. I’m not entirely sure what that would mean. I don’t mean that in a disparaging way, I’m not quite clear about it, because what we find is, when investors come to Wales, they want to go to a specific site in Wales. You can’t say to them, ‘You can’t go there; you’ve got to go there’. So, Aston Martin was only ever going to go to St Athan. It wasn’t going to go anywhere else. So, it’s not as easy as it sounds simply to say, ‘Well, we’ll ensure that investment travels all over Wales’, because private companies don’t work like that. Public investment is easier, clearly; private investment, much more difficult.

He talked about an investment bank of the isles—interesting and something, of course, that I’m sure will be explored in the months to come, and he also talked about Wales making its own way in the world. I have to say that UKTI have been hugely supportive of us as we’ve travelled around the world. We’ve received support from them. The embassies around the world have been nothing but supportive of us in attracting investment into Wales. We have opened offices in different parts of the world where we know we can be effective in adding something extra in terms of Wales’s voice. But I don’t think that the result last week will alter our ability to sell ourselves to the world in terms of being able to project Wales to the world. It will affect, of course, what we’re able to offer in terms of market access if there’s no deal on the table. One of the issues we always grapple with is, if we’re looking to expand our presence in a particular country, do we expand a presence in one country or do we open an office in another? These are issues that we constantly wrestle with. But we know that the offices in the US and India, particularly, are hugely, hugely important in terms of projecting Wales as a place to invest, and that will continue.

Mark Isherwood I listened to carefully. Many years ago, Members will recall Steve Wright when he was on Radio 1. He had a character called Mr Angry from Purley, who was somebody who began calmly and then worked himself up into a rage, almost choking on his own rage. Well, he did that again today. He is, after all, somebody in this Chamber who once described us on these benches as ‘left-wing fascists’. So, I remember that phrase. But I have to say to him, he talks about inclusivity—for years his party had Secretaries of State for Wales who didn’t even represent Welsh constituencies. We will not take lessons from the Conservative party about inclusivity when they had people representing us who had no connection at all with the people of Wales. Thankfully, those days have changed.

I listened to what Caroline Jones had to say and I think I’ve dealt with that in terms of what she said about the narrowness of the referendum result. But we have to understand that it is said that there are opportunities. They’re not apparent yet—not apparent yet. I’ve not heard any in this Chamber that present themselves as opportunities. We know there are challenges. Right, that’s what the people of Wales have delivered and that’s what the people of Britain have delivered; we have to get on with it. But it’s hugely important, as I’ve said, for ‘leave’ campaigners to come up with an idea of what they think the UK is going to look like. What sort of relationship do we have with the EU? What sort of relationship do we have on the world stage? If that is not articulate and clear—[Interruption.]—in a second. If that is not articulate and clear then that gap will be filled by those who are more extreme.

Thank you, First Minister. I agree with some of the comments made by David Rowlands earlier. Do you share my concern that we have enough trouble getting the money we’re due out of the Treasury anyway, and we have done since 1999 because of the way the Barnett formula has worked over that time, so, when it comes to getting additional money out of the Treasury to replace the money we’re currently getting from Brussels, that really will be quite a challenging task and there’s no guarantee we’re going to get that, which is why we need the fiscal framework to operate?

There is always a welcome for the Member on these benches with his views. But he’s right—he’s right. Because Members will know that getting money out of the Treasury, fairness, the Barnett formula, air passenger duty—the answer was always ‘no’, because apparently the people of Wales and their views are not important. Well, that has to change. Others have said it in this Chamber and I’ll repeat it once again: it is our money and it needs to come to Wales for this legislature to decide how that money is distributed. Nothing else will do.

So, we face a different world, a different kind of politics, and a very uncertain world. We don’t know what the relationship will be with the EU. We don’t know what the UK, if it exists, will look like over the next few years. What is hugely important, I believe, for all of us in this Chamber, is to provide answers. They may not be answers we all agree on but, if we fail to provide a vision of a way forward, whatever differences there are between the different visions, then the gap will be filled by those whose views are far more extreme. We sometimes think that the 1930s and those conditions could never return, but I’m not convinced. So, it’s important for democratic politicians to make sure that they regain the confidence of the public, regain the trust of the public, and make sure that we have prosperity, justice and fairness for our nation.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? If not, the motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.