The next item on our agenda is the statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Environment and Rural Affairs on energy. And I call on the Cabinet Secretary to make her statement—Lesley Griffiths.

Diolch, Lywydd. Our energy system is going through significant change. This statement reflects this changing context, and sets out Welsh Government priorities in relation to energy.

The Paris agreement is driving the international decarbonisation agenda. We are seeing rapid developments in renewables, storage and demand reduction. At COP22 in Marrakesh, I met leaders who’ve made progress in developing low-carbon societies more resilient in coping with future challenges. In contrast, the UK Government has created policy uncertainty and undermined investor confidence in energy. I want to be explicit about the priorities for Wales and how we will deliver them.

This Government remains committed to the ambitions set out in ‘Energy Wales’. I have three clear priorities for this Assembly. First, we will reduce the amount of energy we use in Wales. Second, we will reduce our reliance on energy generated from fossil fuels. Third, we will actively manage the transition to a low-carbon economy. We will drive this transition to deliver maximum benefits for Wales, providing strategic leadership, and reducing uncertainty. We must continue to grow the economy at the same time as reducing emissions and managing affordability. I will ensure our policies and support are aligned and work towards delivering a low-carbon energy system for Wales.

First, reducing the energy we use in Wales: we will continue our flagship energy efficiency programmes, focusing on vulnerable people at risk of fuel poverty. This futureproofs homes against rising energy prices, reduces emissions, and helps people stay warm and healthy. We have spent £217 million improving over 39,000 homes in the past five years. Last year, the Nest scheme delivered average energy bill savings of over £400 per household. I know my colleague the Minister for Finance and Local Government is looking at the detail of the autumn statement and discussing Welsh Government priorities for additional spending. When the current building regulations sustainability review is complete, we will turn our attention to improving the energy performance of new buildings.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

We will build on changes we introduced in 2014 to further reduce the climate impact of new developments in Wales. I anticipate this work will start towards the middle of 2017. We’re also increasing investments in public sector energy-efficiency projects. By the end of this financial year, we expect to have invested approximately £35 million in cost-reducing projects. I will continue to work with the Permanent Secretary to consider how we can achieve our energy-efficiency goals on the Welsh Government estate. We will continue to support energy-intensive industries, including steel, to become more energy efficient through our environmental protection scheme. Our scheme alleviates some of the issues of high overall energy costs. However, we continue to call on UK Government to deal with systemic problems of energy pricing for these industries.

Second, reducing reliance on energy from fossil fuels: this Government’s commitment to support renewable energy projects is set out in ‘Taking Wales Forward’. It will form a key element of the four cross-cutting strategies driving forward our priorities. The low-carbon transition will impact on how we generate and use electricity and heat, and transform the way we meet our transport needs. As this sector is a major fossil fuel user, I will be working with my colleague Ken Skates, the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure, on the joint implications for our portfolios. We are committed to supporting low-carbon vehicles and modal shift for passengers and freight in order to reduce emissions from transport. To deliver secure and affordable low-carbon energy, we need a mix of different technologies and sizes, from community scale to major projects. In the medium term, this means transitioning to low-carbon generation, which includes nuclear. We will maximise the role of renewable generation. Storage and smart technology will play a key enabling role, and carbon capture and other innovations may play a part. We will develop our evidence base to identify the energy pathways delivering the best outcomes for Wales. This will enable us to set ambitious yet realistic targets for renewables, including community energy.

We have established ground-breaking legislative frameworks in relation to planning, natural resource management and decarbonisation, underpinned by our Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. We will implement these strategic frameworks to guide the right energy developments to the right places for Wales. My aim now is to put mechanisms in place to deliver a clearer and more streamlined system. This will include establishing our national development framework, consulting on our draft marine plan, consulting on our innovative approach to natural resource planning, producing area statements to help identify opportunities for renewable energy, and reflecting this potential within local development plans, establishing the first carbon budgets and low-carbon transition plan, and developing an effective consenting regime for Wales as we receive powers to consent developments up to 350 MW.

I’m grateful to all who contributed to the recent Environment and Sustainability Committee report and the task and finish groups on marine energy and rural energy. We will now focus on implementing the practical recommendations. Where possible, we will streamline the number of consents for a project. The Wales Bill devolves control over onshore oil and gas activity in Wales. Gas plays a role in the transition. However, we must manage its deployment sensibly. I will continue our precautionary approach to unconventional gas activity, including opposing fracking. Coal has played a central role in Wales’s economic development. However, we must move to more sustainable energy sources.

I agree with the UK Government’s proposals to phase out unabated coal-fired generation by 2025. I will shortly be consulting on changes to planning policy to restrict proposals for new coal extraction. I will provide a strong voice for Wales in the wider energy system, sharing our priorities with the UK Government, Ofgem, National Grid and others. This includes supporting renewable generation, including least-cost technologies such as solar and wind, continuing to support emerging technologies such as marine energy, ensuring regulation supports decarbonisation and decentralisation of energy, and making our grid infrastructure fit for purpose.

My third priority is to drive the energy transition to deliver maximum benefits for Wales. We will develop our skills base and provide practical and financial support for energy opportunities that accelerate the low-carbon transition. Wales has opportunities to host major energy projects, which can provide significant benefits to Wales. These include nuclear and marine in Anglesey, and tidal lagoons and innovative energy elements in the Swansea city region bid. We will continue to support generation at different scales, from farm scale to Wylfa Newydd, the largest infrastructure project Wales will see in a generation. We await the outcome of the Hendry tidal lagoons review with interest.

Our Smart Living programme brings together public, private and academic institutions around practical demonstration projects. It will create new business models for low-carbon vehicles, storage and local grid management. We will also continue to work with developers to identify whether new small modular reactors can add value to our skills base in Wales. We will continue to listen, evolving our support to the changing needs of the public sector, businesses and communities. I believe this co-ordinated and coherent approach to energy will deliver a prosperous and secure low-carbon Wales.

Can I thank the Cabinet Secretary for the statement, and also for the advance copy of the statement that she’s just made? Quite wide-ranging—I think, if I could be critical, rather low-wattage: we need a bit more oomph in this, probably the most critical area of Government policy.

Can I just start first of all—? And there are many areas where we agree with the Government’s approach; it’s very much a matter of ensuring it’s implemented effectively. Let’s start with energy efficiency. I don’t disagree with what was said by the Cabinet Secretary, but I think there are some key things, now, where the Welsh Government has got to hold other actors to the fire and ensure they deliver their promises. The smart meters roll-out, for instance, needs to accelerate very sharply. It seems to me that Wales has just been left behind by most of the companies, and they’re doing all of England, a bit like the approach we had to electrification of the railways, which is an issue I think has come up in this Chamber before. I am very concerned that we really have so far to go on that. I know the energy companies are now making all sorts of promises about how quickly they’re going to do it, but gosh, they do need to catch up. Smart meters offer a great chance, both in terms of energy efficiency and getting lots of people out of fuel poverty, so that they can keep their homes warm at the lowest possible cost.

You’re right to look at the opportunities we have to create buildings that generate energy, rather than just consume it. I think the ambition needs to be as great as possible. So let’s produce the building regs, let’s lead the UK in this area, let’s train our workforce to be able to do this work, and then we may be attracting business from all over the UK through a highly sophisticated workforce. So, I think that’s a really important area. It’s also a marvellous area in terms of generating the local economy. It is really, really productive.

I think the private sector, in terms of energy efficiency, needs to play its part also. I understand from a Barclays survey that 50 per cent of Welsh manufacturers fear for their energy resilience—and they’re probably right to—and that they may suffer shortages caused by a lack of supply or cost in the future. Well, one of the things they can really do is to use energy more efficiently. And I think the idea of using energy efficiently is then to reduce the total amount you need, rather than being profligate in other areas. It really has to lead to more effective and lower consumption overall.

Can I turn to fossil fuels? Let’s state the obvious: carbon budgets will help, but why have we got to wait until the end of 2018 before we see the first one from the Welsh Government? That’ll be halfway through this Assembly. Those carbon budgets are supposed to help you make decisions and the legislature to scrutinise them. I really think being dilatory in this area is frankly a failure of leadership. I particularly welcome the Chancellor’s autumn statement in what he said for electric vehicles and general cleaner transport, including public transport, and also the infrastructure investment that will be made available for recharging points and other infrastructure, some of which you mentioned. I think we need some detail out of you, Cabinet Secretary, basically. Are you going to use some of the moneys that are going to come to Wales to ensure that we catch up? Because we’re considerably behind on electrical charging points, for instance. I would also like you to take a lead with the local authorities and other public transport providers—that we can do a lot to move them away from the often intense use of diesel fuel and look at other options, because it’s important that we take advantage of the great shift we’ve had to public transport use in the last 10 or 20 years; that’s very important, but we could be doing much better to deliver cleaner public transport. That’s a double win, if we do that. It could also extend to the taxi fleets, incidentally, if they were using hybrid and moving away from diesel, or even going totally to electric. So, I do hope that you will feel confident enough to give us greater leadership in that area as well.

Can I just, in passing, mention the need, I think, to reimagine our urban spaces? I was much encouraged by what some of the leading cities in Europe have just said, led, I think, by Paris, saying that we really need to look at the urban space and think what’s there that can be used differently. I know they’re setting very ambitious targets to make them diesel-free areas. But, you know, we’ve got cities full of roads and pavements, and we often talk that we need more infrastructure for cycle lanes and for pedestrian lanes. Well, we could redesignate quite a lot of what we already have, thank you very much, and that would change people’s attitudes pretty quickly and allow us to live lower carbon-intensive lives. I think this is really important in terms of the direction of travel.

On renewables, as a result of the Wales Bill we will be better placed to move forward more rapidly. I do acknowledge that the Welsh Government has not had as many levers here as it would like, and I’m pleased that we will have more. That will allow us to set much more ambitious targets. If we look at Scotland—and this isn’t a comparison to condemn the Welsh Government, because there are wider reasons why this has happened, but, anyway—Scotland is set to generate the equivalent of all its energy needs by renewable methods by the early 2020s. So, I think we need a target. It can’t be by the early 2020s, but we shouldn’t delay that target for very long, and we need to be as ambitious as possible as to when we may get there.

Just turning to the low-carbon economy, your vision is that this is a great opportunity, and that is also my hope. What was once one of the world’s most intensively carbon economies now has a chance to be part of a new way of doing things, and a new way of conducting our economic lives. A lot of this is disruptive; a lot of what is happening in the world economy is disruptive, but it does actually bring the barriers to trade down a lot as well, and relatively poorer regional economies like Wales have a chance here. But to do that—and this is not just in the energy sector, this goes across the board—we need to invest in the skills of our workforce and concentrate on skills in terms of energy. I referred to that a little earlier.

I also think the advantages—

Are you coming to a conclusion? You’ve taken nearly as long as the Minister.

I do apologise. Small-scale generation opportunities are there, and I think that can also create more community ownership and also more investment opportunities. In an age of low interest rates, there are opportunities here for people to get a fair return on their savings—and a general use of new technologies such as tidal. Thank you.

I thank David Melding for his comments and questions. As I said at the start, our priorities remain as set out in ‘Energy Wales: A low carbon transition’, ‘Green Growth Wales’ and other policies that have come forward. If going to COP22 in Marrakesh taught me one thing, it was about the whole decarbonisation agenda and how we need to focus on the different sectors to make sure we achieve those targets. Obviously, energy has now come together in one portfolio, so I thought it important to bring this statement forward.

In relation to energy efficiency, I think Arbed and Nest are very good schemes and certainly in looking at the outcomes, I think that’s absolutely the right way forward if we’re going to reach our fuel poverty target. I absolutely take on board what you say about smart meters, and that’s a conversation that I’ve had with the energy companies and with Ofgem.

You referred a couple of times to skills being very important in the energy sector, and I couldn’t possibly argue with that. I remember when I was the skills Minister several years ago, having a focus on ensuring we had enough people to install solar panels, for instance. But now, because of the UK Government’s support being taken away from solar—I’m a big fan of solar—I think we’re seeing the number of solar panels being installed reducing, which I think is a great shame. So, it’s about ensuring that those skills are right. For instance, on Anglesey in Wylfa Newydd, there is a big focus on ensuring that those skills are there going forward. But you’re right; across the board in energy, we need to ensure the appropriate skills are there.

You mentioned the private sector having a role to play in two ways: businesses have a role to play, and I think it’s really important, if we’re going to have that energy mix that we want to see and that security, that we need to ensure that we attract private sector funding also. But I think you are right; we need to ensure that companies are energy efficient and that we are encouraging them to—as I said, the first priority is to reduce the usage in Wales.

Prices also have a hugely important role to play. We haven’t got the powers over those, that’s the UK Government, and I know the First Minister has written, I think, to the Prime Minister and also to the appropriate Secretary of State in relation to reducing costs also.

You mentioned carbon budgets. The timing of the regulations were actually previously discussed and agreed in this Chamber, I think as the environment Bill was going through. It was voted on and that’s how those dates were set. But I am now in the process of setting that carbon budget. I think you’re right; they will be hugely beneficial.

On electric vehicles and, as you mentioned, taxi fleets, I was talking to the deputy mayor of Oslo in Marrakesh and that’s one of their ambitions—that all taxi fleets will be electric vehicles going forward. We have to get the infrastructure in place. People are telling me, you know, that they would buy an electric vehicle but they can’t charge it up, and local authorities are saying they’re not installing charging points because not enough people have got electric vehicles. So, I think I do need to have a look at where we can target support to make sure that circle is rectified, to make sure that’s not a barrier for people having electric vehicles going forward.

On renewable targets, I’m very keen to have some targets, but again, because of the paucity of the UK Government support, I don’t want to set a target that’s not achievable. We need to make sure that we’re realistic and pragmatic about this, but I think, going forward, we need to have those targets in place.

In relation to the legislation, we’ve got the legislation in place now and it’s about—you know, now we need to deliver on that legislation that we’ve got in place. It will help, I think, for us to have the right, secure energy mix that we want going forward.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary for her statement and preface what I’m going to say by saying that I don’t doubt for one second her own personal commitment and interest in this subject, but I’m afraid this statement is like a lot of Government statements we’ve had of late—very long on process, very short on detail and virtually negligible in terms of targets. I think it’s very disappointing, really, that we’ve got to this stage without more detail and more flesh on what ‘Energy Wales’ actually will mean in terms of targets for the Government.

There’s nothing I can disagree with in terms of the high-level aims of the statement. It says,

‘First, we will reduce the amount of energy we use in Wales.’

Great. By how much? By when? How? Secondly,

‘We will reduce our reliance on energy generated from fossil fuels.’

Again, great. By how much, when, and how? The only target in the statement is the UK Government target to do away with coal combustion by 2025. And thirdly,

‘We will actively manage the transition to a low carbon economy.’

Well, the same questions arise, but let’s give very immediate questions to that. We’ve got cities already banning diesel cars in 10 years’ time—Copenhagen saying, ‘We won’t have any fossil fuel cars by 2025.’ What are our cities doing? What’s the city region doing? What’s the Welsh Government doing to achieve those aims within the Welsh context?

Electric vehicles—you want electric vehicle infrastructure. Simple: no development in Wales with car parking can go ahead without electric vehicle charging points. Just get a structure put in over five to 10 years like that.

Hydrogen—where’s the role of hydrogen in mass transportation, commercial transportation, and particularly for the south Wales metro? We can jump electrification of our railways by going straight to hydrogen transport. These are the things that I want to see in a vision from Welsh Government.

I think it’s frustrating, because we know that climate change is the biggest threat facing humanity, we know the Welsh Government has targets of reduction of 80 per cent in greenhouse gas emissions by 2050 and we know we’ve got the tools here in Wales to deal with it. We have huge natural resources and we can easily be self-sufficient in meeting our electricity needs through renewable energy.

So, just to come to a couple of specific questions on where we can actually, hopefully, agree and deliver something on this. First of all, on energy efficiency, yes, we have energy efficiency programmes, but what now is the new energy efficiency programme for the Welsh Government? What’s its target? It is completely realistic to think of 150,000 low-income homes being made energy efficient by 2020 by using, for example, borrowing powers as well as sources such as the Green Investment Bank. So, is there a commitment now to large-scale home retrofitting programmes? Is there a commitment to phase out opencast coal mining in Wales? Yes, a ban on fracking, but let’s phase out opencast mining as well, because we know that we won’t have the combustion plants, really, to take that coal, so why are we continuing to allow opencast coal mining in the long-term future? Is there a commitment and a way of working to improve the relationship between Welsh Government and the National Grid on distributed and local grid networks?

Interestingly, yesterday, it was Cornwall, with the help of European funding, that announced the first local energy market being established here in the United Kingdome. Centrica British Gas are leading on that with local partners in Cornwall. Why isn’t Wales doing that? Why is it Cornwall and not Wales that’s taking us forward in that regard? And why, although we talk of the tidal lagoon, don’t we have more in the statement around marine energy? The tidal lagoon is a decision at the moment for the Westminster Government, but we have a lot that we can do to support marine energy here in Wales.

And finally, my final point is this: you have agreed in the past that you’re prepared to consider supporting the establishment of a national energy company, which Plaid Cymru calls ‘Ynni Cymru’—a not-for-dividend company at arm’s length from the Welsh Government, so that we can invest any profits in improved services and energy reduction and also deliver cheaper energy more directly to the consumer. That energy company could enable the development of local energy programmes; local energy markets; community energy; the mass installation of solar panels; businesses and public bodies to become more energy efficient; and the task of reducing the consumption of energy in homes and businesses. As clearly you have the ambition, but as equally clearly, Government does not have the wherewithal or, it seems to me, the appetite to actually deliver on this, what about establishing a company to do this on your behalf?

Thank you, Simon Thomas. As I said in my answers to David Melding, I do think we will need targets and I’m very happy to bring those forward, perhaps in the next statement or via a written statement. But I want to make sure those targets are realistic and pragmatic, and I saw some very ambitious targets by some countries, or by some states and regions particularly, in the meetings that I had. I’ve discussed with them how they got there; I think there’s a lot of work to do to make sure that we can do it also. But Wales has absolutely been at the forefront of this agenda, and it’s really important that we stay up there. So, we need to make sure that those targets are realistic and pragmatic, but I will be bringing forward targets, particularly for renewable energy.

I think you’re quite right about car parking and planning and it’s very fortunate that energy and planning are in my portfolio, because I can make sure that the two align. Certainly, in building regulations, there’s a big job that we can do to aid our low-carbon transition there.

On hydrogen trains, I think definitely the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure is obviously looking at the use of those, going forward, for the south Wales metro. In relation to opencast mines and coal, absolutely, I’m happy to rule out the expansion of that. I do recognise, obviously, that coal continues to have an important role to play in the current energy mix, but we know that countries phase it out very quickly and we don’t want to be left behind. So, it’s really important that we support that transition. And, yes, as I said, the UK Government is consulting on ending the use of coal by 2025. I absolutely agree with that. I’m going to go out to consultation and it could be that, again, we’ll end earlier than 2025, but I’ll be preparing that consultation going forward.

In relation to marine energy, I do think there’s a huge opportunity, and I was very disappointed that we haven’t had the Hendry review report yet. I met with Charles Hendry, alongside Ken Skates, several months ago now, and I had hoped by now that we would be in a position to know the outcome of that. You’ll be aware that I’m bringing forward the marine plan next summer, and I think that will aid companies that want to bring forward marine energy when they know what the proposals are there.

In relation to an energy company, we are exploring the potential for not-for-profit energy companies in Wales, but I think we need to be very clear about the purpose of such a company. It could tackle energy prices, it could address issues of trust in providers, it could help with the market of Welsh generators, for instance, or even all those things. But I think it’s unlikely that one single model could tackle all of those issues. I know we’ve got several local authorities looking at action in this area and I’m going to have discussions with them. I’m very happy to work with anybody who is interested in that idea, if you wanted to discuss it with me further. I think it’s important that we have clarification on how Welsh Government could add value in that area. I think, at the moment, the robust case for a single not-for-profit company is not that clear for me, but I am very interested in pursuing the idea.

I totally agree with what Simon Thomas said, but from a totally different platform, of course, when I ask you: what was the point of this statement today? Was there anything new in it at all? Was there anything that had not been announced previously? It seems to me a perfect example of what Rhun ap Iorwerth was complaining about only this week: time taken up in this Assembly for endless Government statements, when we could be having useful debates on many other issues and having votes on things that really matter. So, was there anything new in this statement at all?

Isn’t the Cabinet Secretary constantly here trying to fill a sieve? Because whatever gains we may make—if gains they be—in reduction in carbon dioxide emissions, that is going to be completely swamped and overwhelmed by the increase in carbon emissions by other countries elsewhere in the world. Let’s just look at the facts here: China produces 30 per cent of the world’s carbon emissions; the entire EU produces 10 per cent; India produces 7 per cent and is destined to overtake the EU within three year; and the United Kingdom produces 1.16 per cent of global carbon dioxide emissions. Therefore, any gains that we might make by closing down the entire British economy overnight would be wholly swamped by increases in carbon emissions from places like China and India in a matter of weeks. In the process, we are imposing a disproportionate burden upon the British people, and the Welsh people in particular, whether they be as consumers of electricity or as workers in industries that are highly intensive energy users.

Eighty-four per cent of the energy that we consume in the UK comes from fossil fuels; 70 per cent of electricity is generated, on average, by fossil fuels; and 100 per cent of our transport, virtually, is provided by fossil fuels.

I’m looking now, as we speak, at the national grid, and we are currently generating from wind 5.25 per cent of our energy. Fifty-one per cent of our energy is produced by combined-cycle gas turbine power stations, which are there as back-ups for the renewables when the wind doesn’t blow or blows too strongly. So, we’re vastly adding to the capital costs of energy production in this country via this requirement for duplication.

China has recently agreed to observe some targets on emissions, but what they’ve agreed to do is not cut their emissions, but actually to but their emissions per unit of economic output. But as the Chinese economy is forecast to grow very significantly in the decades ahead, actually their carbon emissions are forecast to rise by 50 per cent by 2030. Meanwhile, we are spending time in assemblies like this, wittering away about things that simply don’t matter in the context of the global economy, even if you accept the theories in relation to man-made global warming, which I know is a point of dispute between the Cabinet Secretary and me. Even if you accept her analysis of the science and its impact on the world, the kind of costs that we’re imposing on the British economy for virtually negligible gain are simply not worth it.

We’ve been talking about electric vehicles and how this is the way forward, but there’s no point in having electric vehicles if the electricity that powers them is produced by largely fossil fuel-generated electricity. I’m very much in favour of energy efficiency schemes, and I think, as Simon Thomas said, we could vastly improve our energy efficiency in Wales by a much enhanced system of insulation grants and other forms of making energy use more efficiently. The impact that that has on the lives of people on low incomes is very important as well, because let’s bear in mind that the people who are paying the biggest price for these policies are those at the bottom end of the income scale—the people for whom the Labour Party were supposed to have been created, and whose interests they purport to defend.

The last point I’ll make in this context is in relation to the other responsibilities of the Cabinet Secretary—and I raised this in questions the other day—as the Secretary for rural affairs. I’m very concerned about the conflict of interest in her portfolio between her requirement to advance the interests of renewable energy through windfarms and, in places like mid Wales in particular, we’re planting new forests of windmills all over our hills and landscape—. This is in conflict with the tourism requirements, as well as the aesthetic interests, of these areas, and I would like to see—if we are going to have these renewable projects, inevitably—that we are far more sensitive in where we’re going to deploy them. We don’t have to have every single hilltop in Wales with a windfarm on it. So, I’d like to hear from the Cabinet Secretary how she’s going to try and reconcile these conflicts in a way in which, perhaps, gives more emphasis to the needs of rural communities, rather than the kind of theories that are supposed to benefit the world at large. I’m more interested in my little world in Mid and West Wales.

Neil Hamilton is just so negative. You really need to recognise what we’re trying to achieve with decarbonisation. It’s about security of energy mix, which I am aware the UK Government are also responsible for. It’s about cost and affordability and it’s about decarbonisation. You go on about China and India et cetera; I’m focusing on Wales, and it’s not just about cutting carbon emissions, it’s about the economic benefits for Wales, and it’s about what these new technologies can do for the people of Wales. You talk about energy efficiency; that’s exactly what Arbed and Nest have done. I mentioned in my statement 39,000 homes. You’re quite right about insulation. It’s really important that people’s homes are insulated correctly, and we have assisted with that. You mentioned the National Grid, and I know the First Minister has met recently with the National Grid. We recognise we have to expand. You talked about when wind turbines aren’t turning, and it’s really important that we have the storage there for when that happens, and that is an important part of that.

As you say, you raised in questions with me windfarms and tourism, for instance, and I’ve looked into the visual impact and the research that’s been done in relation to that, not just here in Wales but also in Scotland. It consistently shows that the majority of people support wind development, or they have absolutely no objection at all, and there is no consistent impact, for instance, on house prices. The Scottish Government have done some research on this to show that there’s no impact at all from wind developments.

As I said, I’m passionately in favour of windfarms in the correct place. You don’t want them all together—well, that’s why we have the strategic search areas. We put the large ones together there to save them from being on every mountain top, as you referred to. I don’t see it as a conflict of interest. I know there are issues with Powys County Council. I know they’ve recently consulted on proposals to identify areas for wind and solar developments in their local development plan. I’m very keen that their LDP isn’t found to be unsound, so I’ve made sure that they’ve had support from Government officials through regular meetings, and other forms of assistance going forward. What they need to do, each local planning authority, when they’re looking at wind turbines or windfarms, for instance, they’ve got to look at their overall vision and strategy for renewable energy development in their area to make sure that their international and their national statutory obligations to protect designated areas or species or habitats are observed.

Thank you. There are two more speakers, and I’m going to ask them both to be very brief. I know that people will adhere to that. Lee Waters.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Minister, I welcome your comments about the finance Minister being willing to look at the consequentials from the autumn statement to see if there are possibilities of further development in home insulation. The Arbed and Nest schemes have been excellent schemes to tackle carbon emissions and poverty. However, their scale is insufficient to meet the challenge of climate change, and given the likely availability of public spending in future years, would you look at alternative forms of finance in order to be able to fund a much more ambitious scheme, building on this excellent work?

You’re quite right, and the Minister for local government and finance is hearing what I say also. I’m pleased you recognise the good work that’s been done with Arbed and Nest. But you’re right: we absolutely have to accelerate programmes such as this if we are going to meet our targets. As I say, the one thing that COP22 taught me, talking to other states and regions, is we’ve got to continually be ahead of the game if we are going to reach those targets. So, I’m very happy to look at anything that will help us, particularly with fuel poverty and the vulnerable people that we need to assist there. I’m having discussions with officials, because you’ll be aware that my capital budget took a big hit due to the budget that we’ve been given by the UK Government, but I said in the Chamber last week that I’d already written to the Cabinet Secretary for finance and, as I say, those discussions are going forward. But if I don’t get the funding for me to be able to accelerate the programmes or look at different programmes, then we will have to look for alternative funding.

Cabinet Secretary, you have said that you now aim to put a mechanism in place with regard to a framework to guide the right energy developments to the right places. You go on to say that this will include producing area statements to help identify opportunities for renewable energy and reflecting the potential within local development plans. But can I ask how you as the Welsh Government can reflect the potential within local development plans when these are, of course, produced by local authorities? Does this mean that you will or have directed local authorities to amend their LDPs?

Currently, Natural Resources Wales are bringing forward the area statements. I will then be able to work with local authorities in relation to that. I haven’t decided if there’s going to be further guidance, but I think it is something that we can work very closely on—or NRW can certainly do so—working in partnership, Welsh Government, local authorities and NRW, going forward with those LDPs.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.