The next item is the statement by the Minister for the Environment on extended producer responsibility, and I call on the Minister to make the statement. Hannah Blythyn.

Diolch, Llywydd. Wales is a world leader in recycling. We are best in the UK, second in Europe, and third in the world. This is a direct result of policies made in Wales. We have invested heavily in kerbside recycling infrastructure and have long-held statutory targets for local authorities, with fines if they're not met. I am proud of our record and the level of commitment to reducing, reusing and recycling right across the country that has got us where we are today.

But, there is still much more to do. We have seen a shift in culture in terms of people sorting their waste and recycling at home, but this behaviour is not reflected when people are out and about, even when recycling bins are available. I am clear that our on-the-go recycling levels need to improve. In recent months, we have seen a rise in the public consciousness and community action when it comes to the need to tackle single-use plastic waste, thanks in large part to the BBC’s Blue Planet programme. But long before that, back in January 2017, the Welsh Government commissioned the Eunomia report on extended producer responsibility—EPR for short.

The researchers were asked to evaluate a range of methods to increase waste prevention and recycling and reduce litter. The focus was on six types of food and drink packaging, including drinks bottles and cans and single-use coffee cups. The summary report, published today, provides information on a range of options including deposit-return schemes, taxes or charges on single-use cups and changes to current EPR regulations. Since this report was commissioned, there have been developments at a UK level, and in some areas it makes sense for us to work together with DEFRA and the other devolved administrations.

I am currently considering a UK-wide deposit-return scheme and will meet my counterparts from the UK and Scottish Governments about this issue next week. Any scheme must, of course, take account of the risks and benefits to existing provision and recycling levels and build on the work we have already done here in Wales. In addition, I am considering amendments to the producer responsibility obligations regulations so that producers and retailers pay a larger share of waste management costs. Messages from our recent stakeholder workshops will feed into this. We continue to work with HM Treasury on a UK single-use plastics tax. At the same time, we will continue to consider a tax, levy or charge on single-use beverage cups for Wales, as recommended in the Eunomia report. The mandatory use of reusable cups and a potential pilot is also something I am considering.

Developing approaches on a UK-wide basis can be less complicated for consumers and better for businesses, who have told us they prefer this approach, particularly as we prepare for Brexit. We want to take a comprehensive, well-thought-out, long-term approach that has a positive long-term impact. The Eunomia study has helped paint a picture of what is best for Wales. Building on this work, further feasibility studies will be commissioned to assess how a deposit-return scheme might impact on municipal recycling performance and to look at the composition and sources of litter in Wales.

The Volvo Ocean Race summit visits Cardiff in June and will focus the world’s attention on what we are doing to tackle plastic in Wales. Last month, I announced that Wales will become the first Refill nation in the world. I know there has been much interest in this area from Members and I am working with Refill to further develop their app and work with Welsh businesses, charities and major events to help make Wales single-use plastic bottle free, with refill points and stations across the country. This will include work with Dŵr Cymru to build the Welsh brand, and develop a behavioural change campaign to help people see the value of our water, and make tap water the top choice for hydration.

Today, I can announce that the Welsh Government has signed up to WRAP's UK plastics pact. This is a collaboration of Governments, businesses, local authorities, non-governmental organisations and consumers who are committed to playing their part in reducing the amount of plastic waste generated in the UK. WRAP Cymru, funded by the Welsh Government, is producing a plastics recycling route-map for Wales. This will recommend action to increase the use of recyclate in plastic manufactured in Wales. The £6.5 million circular economy capital investment fund for 2019-20 will contribute to this goal. 

I also announced last month an additional £15 million of capital funding over three years for the collaborative change programme. This will further improve local authority recycling collection systems and infrastructure, including for plastics. In the coming weeks, I will meet organisers of major events in Wales to increase the recycling of plastic and reduce the use of single-use plastics.

But, I am clear we must practice what we preach on this, and I am committed to ensuring Welsh Government offices are single-use plastic free by the end of this Assembly term. We are already taking significant steps towards this. As a result of the 25p charge for the use of disposable cups, around 75 per cent of hot drinks sold in our canteens are sold in a reusable cup. We do not use plastic straws, stirrers or cutlery in our canteens. In addition, Welsh Government will continue to influence the broader public sector in Wales, for example through catering disposables procurement contracts across the Welsh Government estate, working with Value Wales.

Later this year, I will consult on regulations to implement Part 4 of the Environment (Wales) Act 2016 that will require businesses and public sector bodies to separate different types of waste, just like households in Wales have been doing for years. This will significantly contribute to recycling rates in Wales, and it is only right that the onus is on all of us to take action.

I make no apologies for our pride in our record on recycling and tackling waste in Wales. I want to take this opportunity to make clear my thanks to partners and public alike: without your hard work, commitment and enthusiasm we wouldn’t be where we are today.

Llywydd, I am keen to build on this success. We were the first in the UK to bring in a plastic carrier bag charge. We can lead the way once again and make Wales the first in the world when it comes to recycling. Diolch yn fawr.

Can I say I welcome this report and the Welsh Government's commitment to a wider plastics strategy? We've been calling for this for some time. I think a UK approach to many of the policy levers to manage plastic waste and increase recycling is definitely the best way forward, although there are initiatives we can take as well, as was indicated in what the Minister said about the renewed ambition of the Government. And retailers and producers tend to favour approaches that are on a UK basis for, I think, reasons that we can understand. 

If I can look at a deposit-return scheme first, and it's interesting that this is now widely favoured, I think. The public are ahead of us, as they are on many of these issues, and the report demonstrates that a 90 per cent plus recycling rate could be achieved in this area. Also—this was very important in the report—high-quality data would be created on recycling rates by the formality of such a scheme. But my direct question on this is: are you open to an industry-led scheme, though monitored, such as the system in Norway where reported recycling rates have been as high as 97 per cent? I do think it's important that industry is taken along with us and is part of the solution. I think the term 'extended producer responsibility' is appropriate, but, you know, they are partners too, and I think they can be very much part of the solution, as retailers can as well. 

Can I just say on the drinking water initiative and the Refill initiative, I do think this is imaginative? It's remarkable that in our culture we've not had—. If you go to the United States, I remember when I was first a student there just being amazed by the water fountains everywhere—absolutely everywhere—and I think we only have one water fountain in the Assembly building, Llywydd. Sorry, I'm not here to question you. [Laughter.] Oh, there are two; I'm sorry. But this sort of scheme, or encouraging people to use reusable bottles and having points where they can go into places around town where they can be refilled, I think that's excellent and that's definitely part of the solution. 

I do believe wider interventions are needed on plastic waste, and as the report points out, only a quarter of 1 per cent—this is amazingly low—of single-use plastic cups are recycled, and they are a significant source of litter. And I would say here that there is consumer responsibility for a lot of it—not all that litter would be because of consumers, but a lot of it would be. So, I think we need to remember that. 

Seventy two million single-serve sachets are used in Wales each year and, Minister, I'm so old that you won't remember these times, but when I was brought up it was completely normal for condiments to come in bottles and pots, and then you suddenly entered this world of often unopenable plastic sachets where what's inside them suddenly squirts where perhaps you don't want it go. [Laughter.] It is a preposterous world where we are reduced to that indignity, and so bring back the ketchup bottles and the like of salt and pepper pots, that's what I say. [Interruption.]  I heard Dai Lloyd was keen to back me in all this change to the past, as it were. 

The Welsh Government has extensive powers through regulations and guidance, as the report says, to control and reduce packaging in restaurants and takeaways in Wales, and I do think that might be an area to look at. Again, I think there would be a lot of public support, but again we would want to work with the outlets. I hope that you will have something to say on that fairly soon.

I was pleased to hear what you said about the Welsh Government practising what it preaches, of course, in terms of its consumption of plastics. A plastic-free July, of course, is nearly upon us. I'm pleased to say that 19 people have signed my statement of opinion to widely recognise that, and I do hope the Welsh Government will be doing that too.

Can I finally say that the report makes interesting points on the quality of data and I think these need to be followed up? I particularly note that Wales's adjusted municipal solid waste recycling rate is 52.2 per cent, or 11.6 per cent below the published figure. I know that's because of the form of calculation—I'm not in any way suggesting anything underhand here—but I think that, as we drive towards zero waste, we do need data that is fully robust, transparent and capable of comparison with other nations. But, broadly, I do welcome what you said this afternoon.

I don't know if I can take the questions on the Assembly estate now. I welcome—

Well, having reflected on it, I think it's two. [Laughter.]

Okay, well that's 100 per cent more than I thought we had.

Diolch, Llywydd. I welcome the Member's broad support for the statement today and the recommendations of the report. You touch on the wider litter issue too. That's why looking at how we tackle on-the-go waste—. We're not only going to tackle litter but actually increase our recycling rate and tackle the use of single-use plastics, whether that be bottles or beverage containers. I think that's why it's really important that we look at these things as a whole and don't just focus on—although single-use plastic is the one that is prevalent and making headlines in the news—one area and inadvertently divert the issue to another. You make a very interesting point about the condiment cups and the way things have changed, and I think we have started almost to reach somewhat of a tipping point now in terms of the public's awareness of these things. I won't mention any outlets' names, but I've noticed that a few fast-food retailers are starting to use—so you have a paper sachet and you put it in from a dispenser rather than the individual sachets.

I think you're absolutely right in terms of the approach of working with stakeholders, with business, because I think there is a responsibility on all of us and we have seen, actually, not only the public's perception of this shift, but also I think we're seeing it from businesses now. They know that it's being consumer-driven, and I think you've seen the range of announcements from various supermarkets and retailers saying that they're going to change their behaviour and practices. Absolutely we all have a part to play in this. We can legislate and take action as a Government, but there are community initiatives that are so important in terms of driving this agenda forward, and businesses should play their part as well because the whole point of extended producer responsibility is that producers and manufacturers aren't just responsible for things at the point of sale that they produce; they're responsible in terms of what happens at the end of life and reuse after that.

In terms of a deposit-return system, in terms of an industry-led scheme, in terms of the detail, that is something I hope to start to work out with my counterparts. Actually, at the moment, that is open, depending on the evidence—the call for evidence and what we get from that—and we'll take a decision on that and make the best decision in terms of having the optimum benefits for us in Wales.

On Refill water, somebody described it today as 'revolutionary', but it's something that you would see as quite obvious, really, that we can do and should be doing. Again, I think it's a relatively new phenomenon, perhaps in the last decade, that we see people walking around with bottles of water and coffee cups. Again, it's about seeing how we can embrace the public mood now in terms of how we tackle that and actually start to tackle the use of single-use plastics. So, there are different ways we can do it as well as looking at taxation and deposit-return schemes. Actually, the indirect impact, potentially, of a Refill scheme across the country is that people will use less single-use plastics as well. So, I look forward to being able to update Members on that in due course.

Can I say to David Melding that, if he comes to the Ship Inn in Aberporth, the first plastic-free community in Wales, he will find his condiments served to him in lovely little pots and not in those awful little sachets—

I'd be pleased to join you.

It just shows that the public are ahead of us in many ways on this and they want to see some significant changes, and I know the Minister, before she made her statement today, has been to visit the weigh shop in Crickhowell, which is an excellent example—Natural Weigh—of how some businesses are also responding to this. So, this is not about Government telling people what to do; this is about the people going themselves and Government chasing after them to try and catch up with the things that we can do in Wales, and everything that the Minister set out I broadly agree with, though I have some questions, as you might expect, on how we might get there, particularly in the context of where the powers now lie.

I think, first of all, just to say, though, that the Eunomia report is quite radical in its way. It has lots of refreshing ideas there, it has some astonishing facts and figures. So, beverage containers, drink containers: 40 per cent of the litter on the ground are basically drinks containers. If we could raise our recycling rate, which varies between 65 and 70 per cent around various drinks containers—although I think those are only the ones that actually get into the stream, rather than everything—and if we get to an 80 or 90 per cent recycling rate of these containers, we will actually halve—that's halve—the requirement for primary materials. So, recycling isn't just about keeping the goods going, if you like, and helping the environment, but you're talking about less use of resources in the first place, less energy going into them, you're talking about better economy, you're talking about that zero-waste economy and the benefits to us more widely that we have all, I think, tried to embrace in the Assembly. So, in that regard, I very much welcome the report and some of the ideas within it.

My difficulty, as previously, Cabinet Secretary, is that waste packaging and product regulations is indeed one of the 24 areas, following leaving the EU from 29 March, that will be reserved, in effect, under the reserved-powers, devolution-not model, to the UK Government. We wait to see how this actually will pan out. Let's put it no stronger than that now. At the moment, we have a UK Government and a particular Secretary of State who has expressed an interest in some of these ideas in Michael Gove. I don't know how long he'll last there; I think he's certainly looking to go somewhere else and to do something else in the next year or so, but, while he's there, we have an opportunity. I agree with the general tenor of the report and what the Minister said, that some of this stuff is better done at a UK level because cross-border, working together, working with our partners, I have no problem with that whatsoever. The question is: do we have powers to pursue it if there's a change of environment Minister at UK level or a change of attitude at UK level?

So, the first question must be around a deposit-return scheme, now working with the UK Government on these ideas. Are you clear, Minister, that if the UK Government either drags its feet on this, or drags out a long consultation or gets caught up in Brexit or whatever it might be, that you can still go ahead with a deposit-return scheme in Wales? The report makes it clear you could do that, and it sets out three options for that: a voluntary, industry-led one has been mentioned; tax on all beverage containers, again very much industry led; or some kind of legislation that we could introduce here in Wales. So, can you give an indication of where you might think it may go?

Secondly, of course, we have to look at all kinds of extended producer responsibility plans. We hear from the UK Government sort of headline stuff: straws. We hear from the UK Government about stirrers and this kind of thing. Is there a package there that we can work in? Do you have a sense that there's a package of extended producer responsibility that you can work with? I don't think the UK Government's proposals are actually ambitious enough and I think we can go further here in Wales. One of the things suggested in the report is not only a 25p charge in Welsh Government for coffee cups, but one for consumers in Wales—to introduce a charge like that. Is this something that we could go ahead with whether the UK Government want to do it or not, because I think it's something that could be usefully done in the Welsh context and change people's behaviour, and help the UK Government, if it's so minded, to move along there? I would not like to see some of these good ideas in this report caught up in the wider considerations of where the next UK Government moves, because I think there are things here we can do now, or at least in the next six months or so, and move on to that.

And, of course, in that regard, can I talk about the £0.5 million in the budget agreement, which initially was for a feasibility study on deposit-return schemes? There are ideas in the report about how that money might be used, and I won't enter into a debate about how it might be used across the floor here, but just to say we accept, of course, that the days of a feasibility study as such are passed; we're now into some actions that can be taken and I very much welcome the opportunity to discuss with you and the Government how that might be achieved. One of the things that I still think that we have a real chance to do here as well is a plastics tax, or plastics levy of some sort. Again, this is something that's been taken up at a UK Government level, but, again, just to express my concern that we don't see that, in some ways, watered down. I think you can water down plastics; they certainly turn up in the bottles of water that we buy. There are traces of plastic in every bottle of water now, so it just shows how ridiculous this situation has become. But this plastics tax idea is something that we can own here. If the UK Government again is not keen on pursuing it, let's see that happen.

And, as a final point, we have heard previously from you and the Welsh Government about how you want to work with partners to change the way we use plastics. You talk about a potential for procurement in this regard. Also, Welsh Government funds an awful lot of bodies that undertake an awful lot of activities in Wales. Some of that involves an awful lot of plastic, whether it's a beer festival tent or something similar, or an event or whatever it may be. Can you consider how you use your funding going forward to change behaviour in these events and in these kinds of institutions as well so that the public themselves can see that you're leading the way?

Can I thank the Member for his numerous contributions? He makes a number of really important points. You actually started off by mentioning The Ship Inn in Aberporth. I managed to stay there when I went to the launch of the New Quay plastic-free community as well. And it was brilliant to go Natural Weigh last week to have a look at what they've learned from others elsewhere, and now they're getting people in Wales coming to them to see how they can learn. I managed to make the most of the visit and took my own container and bought some nice chocolates and also invested in some bamboo toothbrushes. [Inaudible.] I'm not sure whether that's approval or not.

In terms of the facts and figures in the report, one of the things that struck me is the 237 million coffee cups that are disposed of every year in Wales. Across the UK, it's 13 billion single-use plastic bottles, which is an astonishing number, and I think only 7.5 billion of those are actually recycled. Actually, the point I'm talking about is the headline stuff that we're getting, and, for want of a better phrase, they come with a package on packaging, and looking at it in the whole, which I think has always been our position. I said to my colleague David Melding that we don't want to focus on one area of concern, as I find that the unintended consequence is that we tackle that one issue and then find we've got a similar issue elsewhere.

One of the things we need to look at as part of the UK Government's call to evidence is that it does look at different types of—what is single-use plastic? What is the problematic nature? I would hope from that—we will see when that closes on 18 May—and feed into that about—. Actually, it isn't just about single-use plastic bottles or singling out a particular issue; it's also about looking at it in the whole, how we tackle it to actually have the best long-term difference and make that change that we want to make, not just for the environment, but, as you said, for our economy too.

I thought you'd definitely mention the money, the £500,000 and, clearly, there are some ideas outlined in the Eunomia report, but that is something I'm sure that we will discuss further outside of this debate today. Looking at a UK approach in terms of a DRS, and also on a single-use plastics tax, I've made clear previously, and hopefully, if we are still—. Plastic tax was one of the four options to potentially test that power. It's not the one that's going forward because we've opted to work with the UK Exchequer to try and have a UK-wide single-use plastic tax. At the moment, those discussions are ongoing and positive.

We've always said from the outset, should that not be a possibility, then we're keen to explore solutions on a Wales-wide basis as well. That's why in this statement today I also brought up the potential of looking at how we tackle all those single-use coffee cups and beverage containers as well.

Thanks to the Minister for today's statement. I think we all accept here that there is a big problem of plastic entering the sea, which volunteers who clean up our beaches have been aware of for some time. And now it's become a major national talking point, partly because of the tv programme that you mentioned—the Blue Planet tv series—which demonstrates that, even in today's multi-channel era, a tv programme can still have a major effect in raising public consciousness, although I also appreciate what you state—that the Welsh Government had already commissioned your report prior to the tv programme.

The question, as ever, is how best to tackle this problem of plastic, and it's good that there are some very specific ideas that we are discussing here today. Wales as a Refill nation, is a good objective, but, of course, we have to look at the practicalities. One practical suggestion that seems to be arising is that we move towards a greater provision of public drinking fountains. The proposal seems to me a little bit similar to another idea that we've sometimes discussed here of keeping open more public toilets, which we were discussing at some length during the public health Bill debates last year. The problem may come down largely to cost, because we used to have more public fountains. We used to have a lot more public toilets, but many have fallen into disuse due to the cost of providing them. We know that there is a large ongoing cost to councils of providing these kinds of facilities, so, with the provision of public fountains, would the Welsh Government be providing ongoing funding to councils to help with this kind of service?

A related issue is that fountains would need to be well maintained so that there is a public perception that the fountains are clean and hygienic, otherwise many people simply won't use them. Now, we could, alternatively, have businesses providing water dispensers in their premises. Again, this is kind of connected to the discussions about public toilets, because we have had schemes where pubs and cafes have been given financial assistance for signing up to have registered public toilets—in other words, for allowing people to come in and use the facility even if they aren't buying any food or drink. So, I wonder if this kind of scheme could also be extended to water dispensers and if that's the kind of scheme that may be under consideration as you go forward with your plans for the Refill nation.

You also mention other aspects, such as food packaging, which is another big issue, and I tend to agree with Simon Thomas: lots of people do talk about this, and why do supermarkets put so much packaging around stuff? People don't really want all of the packaging. It takes time to rip it all off and sometimes you end up cutting your hand open. I have similar problems with sachets as David Melding seems to have. Now, most towns have something of a waste issue around late-night fast-food outlets and the associated discarded containers. Well, if we used trading standards rules, we could enforce the use of biodegradable containers, which would be better, so I think the move to biodegradable packaging is a good idea.

But one thing I do wonder whether you would take up is wet wipes, because there is recent evidence that some 93 per cent of fatbergs blocking up the sewage system come from wet wipes being flushed down the toilet. A big problem is that many wet wipes are labelled as flushable. Well, they may flush down the toilet, but many do actually block the sewage pipes, so that is misleading the people who buy these products. So, I wonder if we could do something and use Trading Standards to alter the labelling of bogus so-called flushable wet wipes. Diolch yn fawr.

I thank the Member for his contributions. [Inaudible.] talking about the Refill nation proposals and the use of water fountains. I think you're right to raise that the issue of water fountains brings with it some complexity in terms of maintenance and upkeep and also issues around maintenance in terms of hygiene, as well. Although there are existing water fountains in a number of places, some of them are of an age when they had lead pipes, so, for that reason, it would be very problematic; you wouldn't want to bring them into use.

So, I think the idea of the Refill nation is to develop refill stations as much as we can, and that detail will come along in due course. But actually, to my mind, they're essentially more robust versions of what we see as a water fountain, which enables somebody to put their bottle on there and have it refilled. I've already spoken to representatives from local authorities on how we can work collectively both with partners at a local government level and with businesses to sign up to become part of the Wales Refill nation, and about what existing facilities we can use to create this network—can we use leisure centres, community centres and businesses? I've also written to my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport on how we can actually make more of our transport network in terms of providing refill stations at major hubs in the first instance, as well.

Fast-food packaging—yes, it's, you know, looking at wider EPR regulations in terms of can we encourage a consumer shift in terms of acceptance for using more environmentally friendly materials. I know, in terms of polystyrene takeaway packages, from the reports, that, actually, the percentage of that in terms of overall litter is extremely low, but, actually, the density of how we find it in certain areas around certain takeaway establishments or shops, it does give an image of prevalence there, and the more, the more—you know, notwithstanding, we do need to look at how we tackle that, because I know, like anybody here, that litter is one of the biggest issues in terms of constituencies and people contacting AMs, MPs and councillors alike.

On wet wipes, I see that's been in the news today, actually. I think one of the things around that too is looking at, actually, better packaging and labelling in terms of flushability, and investing in the technology to actually get more environmentally friendly materials. I'm told Water UK has a saying—I don't know whether I'm allowed to say it in the Chamber, but I'm going to—that the sewer system is only designed for the three Ps, paper, poo and pee, not plastics. So, if there's one thing for Members to take home—. But Dŵr Cymru have a Let's Stop the Block campaign, so I think it does come back to what we do in our work on education and behavioural change, coupled with, actually, how we address packaging and labelling to make sure people are clear on what can and can't go down the toilet, and actually not just saying, 'You can't do it,' but the reasons behind it, the impact it has on the environment—actually, not only on the environment, but it has an economic consequence in terms of—. I know that Dŵr Cymru spend around £7 million per year flushing out sewers as a consequence.

I've two questions. Just a couple of comments before that: I think it's worth looking at where we've come from, and when we started, for example, with the plastic bags, the impact that had—almost 400 million bags a year in Wales alone not being utilised, 8 billion in the UK, which followed on from the Welsh example. I remember raising this at the Committee of the Regions in Brussels, because a whole series of countries in Europe were also thinking of following the example, which has resulted in, potentially, around 80 billion a year not being used. So, we mustn't underestimate the importance of the leading role that we play within Wales and the impact that can have, not just within our country, but within other countries as well.

Can I also just put on record how important it is to congratulate those councils who have been making so much progress, in particular my own council of Rhondda Cynon Taf, who've achieved now a 64 per cent recycling target, really leading the way, way ahead of Government targets, and continuing to do so?

Can I then also just refer to some of the matters you raise with regard to water, bottles, straws and so on, the Back to the Future items, which create an awful lot of nostalgia in my own mind? My misspent youth was spent hanging round building sites collecting those bottles for the returns of money, which normally went to finance five Park Drive in the local shop, I'm ashamed to say. The paper straws—I mean, I don't remember what a plastic straw was. We had paper straws that doubled up as peashooters, went with the school milk—they came with the school milk, which, of course, Maggie Thatcher then abolished; that was another matter. It was an anathema, and still is an anathema to many of us, the idea of not drinking tap water, or 'council pop', as we knew it, and it's still much better than the bottled stuff. I never understood that.

So, coming to the two questions, really, one is in terms of jobs. There's a tremendous opportunity here in terms of the transformation that is going to take place from the billions of straws that are used, the billions of paper cups and so on, and I wonder what, perhaps, we're doing to look at the business opportunities that exist around that.

The second one—you talked about culture change and, of course, education. Of course, in order to achieve that change, we have to educate the young people coming after us, the six, seven, eight, nine-year-olds. I can only then refer you perhaps to some of the fantastic educational information in terms of Tiki the Penguin, the kid's guide to the problems with plastic. I'm not going to put you totally on the spot now, but, apparently, if all the plastic humans make every year was weighed in elephants, how many elephants would you need? I don't expect an answer from you, but apparently it is 30 million, and, if you stood them in a line, they would go around the earth five times. That sort of educational information that's coming out I think is fantastic, because, to some extent, the actions we take now are for the generations that follow after us, and the work that's going in to actually change that whole culture within those generations, it just seems to me so important, and I think some of those imaginative ways of putting it over, of educating children now, are absolutely fantastic.

I thank the Member for his very illuminating and entertaining contribution then, taking us down memory lane as well. I'm not sure whether the reason you're committed to us bringing DRS in is so you can actually have a sideline of collecting all the bottles, or encouraging the nation's youth to that. I think you're absolutely right to say, 'Look at where we've come from.' So, I think our earliest recycling figures—in 1999, it was on 5.2 per cent, and we're now at 64 per cent in Wales. That has come, not from generating headlines, but from hard work and a sustained strategic approach to driving that change, and it's driving that cultural change too. We know that a lot of people now take it as the norm to separate and do their recycling and have separate waste collection.

In terms of your second question, in terms of the education, that's such a huge part of it, and one of the most enjoyable things I've found in this portfolio so far is doing the eco-schools work. The children, they are so well informed. I went to one school, and they all explained to me what a global citizen was, and global responsibility. They will tell you why they need to do this recycling and up it to the next level. I did ask them if they wanted to come and do my questions for me, perhaps, and stand in. But they're also—. What you see, it's not actually within the school; it's going outside of that, because they take what they've learnt and they use that pester power, and they'll tell their parents and their grandparents and their relatives, 'Why aren't you doing that? You need to do that'. And they can tell them, 'This is about me in the future; I want my environment to be in a good state for me when I'm your age as well'. So, I think, really, the education things and the fun things you talked about like that—. We just recently did a—it was a campaign on what will Wales look like in 2050, and we had some great contributions from primary schools across Wales coming back about what they thought Wales could look like, and what we needed to do to stop it getting that way in 2050 to make sure that we still had a brilliant country for us all to enjoy.

You're absolutely right. As well as this being an environmental issue, and having environmental reasoning and a positive impact from us making these changes, there are huge economic benefits for us as well. That's why it's important in terms of the role the circular economy can play. And at the same time as we're looking at the measures to tackle single-use plastic waste, we also as the Welsh Government are committed to looking at actually how we drive the inward investment to here, to make sure that we can actually do more of the reuse and recycle within Wales. So, at the same time, actually playing our part in terms of the recycling model and the circular economy, but also at the same time creating multiple jobs as a consequence of that.

I welcome the Minister's statement. It's a very wide-ranging statement, I think, and covers many aspects, so I think it's very welcome. You spoke, at the end of your speech, about the enthusiasm from the public and how they are leading us. In my constituency, I recently attended the launch of a plastic-free Rhiwbina initiative, started by a constituent and supported by our MP, Anna McMorrin. This took place in Snails, a cafe in Rhiwbina, which is going plastic-free. Incidentally, there was a stall there that was selling bamboo toothbrushes. The constituent plans to go round to businesses in the village offering a plastic audit and advice on how to reduce single-use plastic items such as straws, stirrers, and generally spread the plastic-free message. We're hoping to extend this across the whole of the constituency, looking for community champions to come forward. So, I thought the Minister would be interested to hear of that public initiative that was taking place in Rhiwbina. 

Then, to move on to the deposit-return scheme and the single-use plastics tax, I support those initiatives. And I understand the reasons why it is acceptable to do it on a UK-wide level, that there may be some advantages in that. But I do think it's very important that we do retain the flexibility for any changes that we want to make to the legislation. And Mick Antoniw mentioned the fact that we did lead on the plastic bags initiative and England followed some time afterwards and, I think, took some time to get to—they are now reaching a similar scheme to us. So, although we've had headline things coming forward from the Government in Westminster, from Michael Gove, I don't think we should be inhibited in any way in doing any initiatives that we would want to do ourselves.

The other issue I wanted to raise—it's been raised a few times—is about the water fountains. I think it's great to make Wales a Refill nation. I personally feel it would be very good if we could re-introduce some public drinking water fountains. I did notice, actually, going to London recently, that they do seem to be re-introducing new fountains in the parks there, which I thought was interesting. But I just wondered if money from plastic taxes could possibly be used to invest in water fountain infrastructure across Wales, because it must be one way of reducing the use of plastic bottles.

Then, finally, I'm very glad that you're going to look at the big events that are taking place, because we're just coming to all the summer events now. So, that's a key place to concentrate on recycling.

I thank the Member for her contribution there, and I think you're right to raise—. You raise some really interesting points that we'll take away in terms of water fountains and our approach to that. And also, actually, I think, what I said before, we'll retain that flexibility—look at and explore the potential of DRS or single-use plastic tax at a UK level, because we know that that's less complex and less complicated for both consumers and businesses, but I've made it clear from the outset that that is the direction of travel, but we'll always retain that option in terms of if we are in a position where we would need to do something ourselves Wales-wide.

The Member mentioned headlines, and, you know, there are announcements, but it's action that makes the real difference. I know that people roll their eyes when I keep saying about our record, but I think we should recognise too that we do come at this from a very good starting point to perhaps some of our colleagues elsewhere in the UK in terms of the point where we're at of our recycling. But, nonetheless, we know that we want to take action to tackle single-use plastics. We know that's in our environmental and economic interest as well.

I've actually seen on social media the plastic-free Rhiwbina initiative, and I just want to congratulate your constituent on the work that they're doing to get that off the ground. It sounds a great idea to sign up kind of community-wide champions to take that message forward. Because, what I saw when I visited Natural Weigh last week was that they'd got the idea from something else they'd seen online, and now they're offering advice to others in Wales to try and do the same thing as well. One of the things I hope to do during—. I think the community aspect in that action is a real driver, a real powerful force for change, and I think the message coming from the public, in some ways, is probably far more powerful than coming from politicians. One of the things I'm keen to do in the summer recess is to visit a number of communities and places who are taking their own actions. So, perhaps, if the Member would like to write to me, we can see if we could factor in doing something in Rhiwbina as well.

Finally, Joyce Watson.

Diolch, Llywydd. I welcome the report, and I'm going to focus in on the £15 million capital funding that we're giving for over three years for the collaborative change programme to increase recycling. What I want to ask, Minister, is if we could use some initiative when we're investing in capital projects, whether it's a new-build school, whether it's an addition to an existing building, or whether it's refurbishing a town centre, because we put public money into all of these schemes, and, at the point of building, it is a real opportunity to ensure that we put some water fountains inside those buildings at that point so that we prevent plastic being used.

I've been looking on the BBC news, and it's been wonderful news for tourism this weekend. People have gone to beaches and places of natural beauty and left their rubbish behind. Barry focuses very prominently in that story, and it took schoolchildren to go behind and clean up. I think Porthcawl was another area, in Bridgend, and I live in Pembrokeshire and I have no doubt that it would be the same there. So, I think there's a whole programme here of education about people coming and enjoying our scenery. We want them to do that because they bring in huge amounts of income, but what we don't want is for them to leave their rubbish behind, which then costs the local authority significant sums of money. I think there's a piece of work that might be worth doing—and perhaps it is being done—when we look at the disposable cups. I think that they make up a significant amount of litter that is then having a cost implication to be picked up, which the taxpayer is actually forking out for.

Whilst we're on the subject of congratulating, I want to congratulate people in Harlech, who are looking towards moving to a plastic-free area, and the chip shop in Cardigan that gave me a cardboard container instead of a polystyrene one, and offered it as a choice. Everybody that was given that choice whilst I was there took that option.

I thank the Member for her questions and her observations as well. I think that's really interesting what you said, although anecdotally—that when people were given the option, they choose to have the environmentally friendly alternative. I'll join you in congratulating Harlech as well, and well done on that chip shop in Cardigan. Maybe I might regret saying I'm going to visit all of these communities as the list gets longer and longer, as it should do. It will certainly keep me very busy during the summer months.

I think that's right in terms of tackling the two together—litter and on-the-go recycling—because a lot of what is littered can be recycled on the go if we have the right infrastructure in place. But also I think those educational and behavioural campaigns are at the core. That will be one of the things that we will be exploring as part of this going forward, too, but also, actually, how it takes in a range of factors as well, not just in terms of your behavioural change, but recycling in the household as well. We know that litter is a blight on our communities as well, and I think it is actually how we strike the right balance in terms of what we would call a carrot-and-stick approach going forward.

Thank you, Minister.