We will now move to a statement from the Minister for Culture, Tourism and Sport: priorities for the historic environment of Wales. I call on the Minister for Culture, Tourism and Sport, Dafydd Elis-Thomas.

Thank you very much, acting Chair, for that welcome.

It gives me great pleasure to present today my priorities for the historic environment of Wales, as set out in the document that I hope that you’ve all received this morning, namely this paper, amongst our most recent publications from the culture department.

These priorities cover four key themes. First, I want us to build on the great strides that we have made in recent years in caring for our irreplaceable historic sites and landscapes. Secondly, I want to make sure that we have the skills across the sector to support their conservation appropriately. Thirdly, I want to help people enjoy and appreciate our historic sites and to encourage greater and more active participation in looking after our heritage. And then, finally and fourthly, our historic sites are also assets that also contribute to the economic vitality of Wales. They’ve made a contribution that extends beyond their value to society and to our knowledge of the past. They make a significant contribution to tourism and to efforts to promote Wales as a unique place for inward investment, and especially as a very special place for us all to live and work.

However, these themes are also interdependent. We need to realise fully the contribution that the historic environment can make to our economic well-being, but we cannot realise the economic value of our heritage if we do not care for it, and we need to pay for that. So, the historic environment sector plays a key role in realising wider Welsh Government objectives. It contributes to the themes of the national strategy, ‘Prosperity for All’, which is part of our national strategy, by helping to deliver a more prosperous, active and united nation, and one that learns. It also underpins the ambitions set out in our economic action plan, by recognising the special places that form the backbone of our local economies across Wales. But most of all, the historic environment is at the heart of our well-being goals and our sense of pride as a nation, something that it’s impossible to place a value on, I would imagine.

Returning to my first theme, caring for our historic environment has to be the starting point. As a Government—before I joined the Government—we introduced the groundbreaking Historic Environment (Wales) Act 2016 and the associated guidance. We maintain and care for the 130 monuments in the Government’s care. We also assist private owners and trusts to care for their important assets, whether through grants or through advice and guidance.

On the second theme, the process of protecting and conserving our historic environment depends on an understanding of its special qualities, and on a set of specific conservation craft skills. I'm very eager to support action to foster that understanding and to grow the practical skills base. To do this, it will require the mainstreaming of heritage craft skills into the wider construction industry and skills curriculum, and building on the already well-established examples within these courses.

In order to achieve the third theme, namely cherishing and enjoying our precious historic environment, I want to encourage many more visitors to our historic sites and help them all, whatever their specific needs or personal requirements, to do so.

Visitor numbers are significant. During 2016-17, over 1.4 million people visited Cadw’s 24 staffed sites alone. However, there's an opportunity for us to do more to encourage younger visitors, and I am keen to see more family activities at Cadw monuments and also engaging interpretation. And that's the purpose of exciting events such as opening Gilbert’s Maze and the Dragon’s Lair at Caerphilly castle, in the presence of the local Assembly Member, of course. Seeing the joy and wonder on the faces of the children and adults was priceless. 

We also need to continue the work on maximising and improving access to those with mobility difficulties, and to do so as effectively as we can. I hope that some of you have had an opportunity to see the excellent access bridges at Caernarfon and Harlech castles. I want to see significant progress in the improvement of access to the higher levels of some of our castles in a way that is sympathetic to their historic character and without affecting the unique experience of being within such monuments. I have also tasked Cadw with revisiting the guidance on easy access for all to historic buildings and to bring it into line with the latest thinking and standards. Access to Cadw sites, of course, also begins long before visitors arrive at the entrance. I have asked for a review of the way that visitors make their journeys to Cadw monuments to include signposting, parking, walking routes, cycle provision, and also on the co-ordination of public transport.

The need to sustain effective partnerships is the basis of the success of these four themes. In recent years, many of the successes of the historic environment sector have been founded on such partnerships, including those with the historic environment group, the built heritage forum and, of course, the local authorities, who are often vital for us to be able to deliver effectively on the front line. More recently, the newly formed Welsh places of worship gorum—and I've had an opportunity to go to one of their meetings recently—is tackling the difficult question, for those of us who are members of faith communities, of seeing the decrease in the congregations and the increasing numbers of chapels and churches that have become redundant, having been, in the past at least, the focus for their communities.  

The new strategic partnership between Cadw and the other three national heritage organisations in Wales provides a real opportunity to share skills and commercial experience—how to ensure revenue and funding for the work of heritage—and I look forward to receiving regular reports on progress in this direction. At the same time, as one who lived in the national library, almost, for some years when I was trying to be a scholar, before I pursued other temptations—this isn't in the official statement, I assure you—I want to recognise the contributions that the National Library of Wales, the National Museum Wales and Royal Commission for the Ancient and Historical Monuments of Wales make, in their own right, and the quality of their work, and their importance, in my opinion. As I argued some time ago, in a different situation, about their futures, their unique work and the quality of their work as individual bodies is very important. I do not want to see these organisations lose their individual identities, but I also look forward to the development of new governance arrangements for Cadw: a new internal board being established in the coming months, and greater operational support, then, allowing Cadw to operate more effectively, alongside its partners in the commercial environment. 

I am coming to a conclusion now, I'm pleased to say. These are challenging times for the historic environment sector because of financial pressures and many future uncertainties. The sector has benefited considerably, as we all know, from European Union funding in recent years, and the process of withdrawal from the EU—but not from Europe, and never from European culture—will present significant challenges. But they are also exciting times. The fact that we have achieved so much in recent years is testimony to the successful partnerships that the Welsh Government, through Cadw, has forged with a wide range of stakeholders. There is now a real opportunity for our outstanding heritage to be positioned at the centre of our future well-being. It sits at the very centre of our cultural identity as a nation, telling the story of Wales’s place in the world. Thank you very much.

I'm delighted to make my first contribution as the new culture and heritage spokesperson for my party, following in the great example of the person now chairing our proceedings; I think that's an elegant link. Can I say, Minister, that for 12 most distinguished years, you sat in that chair and you promoted the concept of constructive challenge, and that's the type of relationship I think that we will now have, and it's one I very much look forward to?

I do commend the document. I think it's set out very nicely and well illustrated. I was particularly delighted to see a picture in there of Neath abbey—more specifically, the way Neath abbey was adapted after the terror of the reformation, and nicely modernised by the Tudors into a mansion and residence, which is a reminder of the terrific forces we have in history. But I was born 2 miles from this site. Most of my family live fairly close to it, even to this day, and when I return to Neath, I often go on a walk that takes me down to Neath abbey along the Tennant canal. You see the canal there, and then the other early signs of industrialisation and the copper workings, and the abbey. It's a remarkable sight. I think it stands in comparison, almost—almost; it didn't have a romantic poet—with Tintern abbey, and we should remember we have these sites. They're only just below the premier league, but they are of enormous value and I know how proud the people of Neath are in Neath abbey. We don't have such a glorious castle. Our main historical site, of that antiquity, is the abbey, and I'm delighted to see it illustrated. 

Can I commend your commitment to partnership working? I think, in this sector, it is key. The work with volunteers and work with civic groups has always been so enormous. In fact, in the 1920s, when the remains of Neath abbey were worked on by a great archeological group, with a mixture of academics and people in civic societies and just enthusiasts—it led the way. It's really, really important, and I wonder if you might even go as far as commending the work of Dr Mark Baker. My colleague is a Conservative councillor in north Wales, but his commitment to heritage is remarkable, and he has been recognised for his work in saving and conserving Gwrych castle—work he started when he was just 13—and he's been recognised by the Prime Minister with a special Points of Light award. I'm not making a partisan point here at all; I'm just saying that it is people with that vision that are really key, because they value their local sites and see their true significance, as I have perhaps indicated with Neath abbey. 

Talking about Neath abbey, I'm obviously pleased to see the reference to the Welsh places of worship forum. You referred to this and the incredible heritage we have with chapels. I think something like one a week opened in the nineteenth century—5,000 or more places of worship. One of the great expressions of the advance of evangelical Christian faith, and it's something we should be proud of. Obviously, most people don't have an attachment to that type of folk Christianity any more, but it was really, really important.

And can I commend, now that I don't serve the area of Neath—my political life has been here in South Wales Central—the landscapes of faith project, run by the diocese of Llandaf I think, which should stand out here, and for their partnership with other organisations such as Coleridge in Wales? I think that shows you the imagination that we really need. It is very, very important that we follow the aim of their project to champion Wales as an internationally important place to discover the heritage of faith and faiths, and we could apply that across other areas of historical and cultural interest.

I think that key here is how we use listed places of worship in order to sustain them. And the most magnificent ones really do need to find a use, and that use maybe could range from a gallery—that's a traditional one—but it may be a restaurant, it may be some community centre; a whole range of things. And we do need to protect those buildings, but we need to use them, and I think that that is key.

I was pleased that you referred to the Historic Environment (Wales) Act 2016, which of course aims to identify and conserve a whole range of important historical sites. Many of these are now being revealed by new mapping techniques and aerial photography, particularly those relating to the early medieval period, the Iron Age, and even the neolithic. We are discovering a remarkable number of sites, and many of them will be of absolutely international significance, potentially, because of the strength of those early cultures in this part of western Europe along the seaboard. And I think it's very, very important that we support people, landowners in particular and local councils, wherever these sites are, and preserve them and then, obviously, interpret them, because some of them will emerge truly as sites of first-class importance. 

Can I just finish by concluding on marketing and tourism? As the document says, it's practically a £1 billion industry in Wales, and I think you're right to talk about the economic potential and the need for us to have a vision of Wales. I'm glad that castles are mentioned, because it is easy for us to see this as the Anglo-Norman sort of heavy hand on Wales, but the other side of interpreting that is that was the military investment required to control that area, and it is quite a remarkable compliment in an odd way.

But if we look at Conwy castle, for instance, it does have, I think, the most coherent claim to be the pinnacle of castle building, and castle building as a fortress ideally suited to its geographical area and for a very—in that case—brutal political purpose. It's important that when people come to Britain to visit castles that they realise that if they want to see how a fortress castle works—and it's nearly in perfect preservation; it's not a ruin, it is as it was built, practically—they need to go to Conwy.

And can I conclude by just saying that I think modern technology is a key area here and that skill is really important? I would like to hear you specifically on anything that you're doing in the digital, cultural projections and resources. The UK Government has a specific digital, cultural project. I'm sure we're doing something similar, but a bit more information on that would be important, because people can see that in North America, Australia, whatever, and when they're planning their trip, they can then know and have a virtual visit to Conwy castle and then come and see it as it exists. But we will work constructively in this very important area to ensure that Wales gets the maximum value for its own citizens, for us all, but also for those who visit us.

Thank you very much, David, for your generous and positive remarks.

I visited Neath and it was a revelation to me to see the way in which the restoration of the abbey has been achieved. I actually stood there and stared at the pointing that had been achieved by those employed by Cadw on the work on that site. But there's also, as my colleague on my left here would remind me, the ironworks. That whole area around Neath, including the canal system, is an area that could be developed, I think, although I mustn't say too much, because, clearly, there are also commercial interests involved who are active in that area with their own businesses. But I'm sure that area could be developed as a main conservation attraction area for visiting tourists.

And similarly, I have visited Gwrych—how could I not visit Gwrych castle, because I live only 10 miles or so away—and seen the amazing work that Dr Mark Baker is doing there. He single-handedly conserved and looked after the old hunting ground of Prince Llywelyn within my own area of Dwyfor, and he is a hugely imaginative person and a great resource for us. And we have, in fact, invested in the beginnings of the maintenance and restoration of Gwrych castle. It is not a folly; it is a unique attempt to reconstruct in the nineteenth century the wonders of the medieval period, and therefore it is the equivalent, I suppose, going back to my own academic past, of the romantic literature, romantic literature and poetry in particular. It is a building, as it were, in the tradition of Samuel Taylor Coleridge. And therefore, to sustain that and its particular location, visible as it is from the A55 and from the main north Wales railway line, and reconstruct it as a tourist attraction, I think, is a huge opportunity.

I am also pleased to say that I'm about to visit the great temple of non-conformity at Morriston.

You're very welcome.

So, I think I will keep my powder dry on chapels until I've had that discussion in Morriston, but I am keen to see what we can do with the chapel heritage. A lot of them have already been converted and have become fine private houses. Some of them have become garages, some of them are very good garages. All these uses that we have for our religious buildings, I think, are important to recognise.

I've also had the great opportunity to visit some of the neolithic sites. Bryn Celli Ddu on that site on Ynys Môn is an amazing space. The work that has been done already to conserve that space by people like Dr Ffion Reynolds and others in Cadw is a huge delight and we will continue to invest in that.

Castles are very special because, as you so rightly said just now, David, it's about the Anglo-Norman inheritance. It's about the Government of Wales looking after great military installations that were put up for an ineffective attempt at conquest. What is equally important to me are the castles of the lords and princes, and that is what we will also be promoting. But both of these are the drama of Welsh history, and if we can convey those to our visitors and, indeed, digitally to those who have not yet visited, that is part of the role of Government, because as I said about three times, I think, in this statement, that is our identity and the difference that Wales is in the world. Therefore, it's something that I feel very strongly about promoting. Thank you.

Oh, and by the way, my door is always open to opposition spokespersons to come and discuss these matters, because the heritage of Wales doesn't just belong to Welsh Government.  

Thank you very much, acting Chair. Thank you. May I also thank and welcome the statement from the Minister on priorities for the historic environment in Wales, and also welcome the publication of this document today that David Melding has referred to already? Because, of course, with this agenda we have a treasure here, a treasure to be treasured indeed.

May I start by welcoming a few of the things that the Minister has already said? When you say that you recognise the contributions that the National Library of Wales, the National Museum of Wales and the Royal Commission on the Ancient and Historical Monuments of Wales make in their own right, the quality of their work has made an impression on you—and has had made impression on all of us, I would say—and then you go on to say,

'I do not want to see these organisations lose their individual identities.'

Well, hear, hear. I congratulate you very much for being able to make such a statement.

You go on before the end to talk about the financial challenges for this sector, of course, as we withdraw from the EU. The question that stems from that is: how are you, as the Minister in this place, intending to ensure continuity of funding when the European funding comes to an end?

That’s one specific question there, but, of course, as you’ve suggested, the majority of this is to do with the history of the nation of Wales, and the need to expand the experience by educating in situ, so that as our people, our pupils, our children visit historic sites, there’s also an educational role there to teach our history as the nation of Wales. I recognise that you’ve started over the summer by underlining the role of the Welsh castles, such as Castell y Bere and so on, to be contrasted with the usual castles that we hear about, such as Conwy, Beaumaris, Harlech and any other oppressive castle that you might want to talk about.

But the fundamental point is: in the absence of teaching our history in Wales in our schools—we’ve had several debates in the past on this, we will continue to have those discussions, I’m sure—would you not agree that it’s required for descriptions in our castles to give the history of brave Welsh people in their battle for independence, and the cruel way that we were very often oppressed in the past? Because, of course, as you’ve recognised before, apparently there are more castles per square mile in Wales than in any other nation in Europe. That could be a strength in terms of selling this unique point of view, but it’s also a deep echo of our history in the past.

So, I do very much welcome your work this summer in Castell y Bere, of course, the Welsh castle, the last to fall to the English—or the Anglo-Normans I'd better call them here; they became English people later on—and, of course, the contribution of Caergwrle castle and also Criccieth castle. But this summer, I went to see one of the Anglo-Norman castles, Castell Llansteffan at the time, and when you go there, you have a description of the details of the construction of the castle. You don’t hear anything about the history of the place or the history of the countryside surrounding it or the history of the nation itself. You have descriptions of how this castle developed over the centuries, the height of the walls and so on, where they lived, where they moved some two centuries afterwards. There's no description of our history as a nation there—why the castle was built to oppress the local Welsh people.

And, as I've already mentioned, we've heard a great deal about the major castles in the north, such as Caernarfon and Harlech, that encircle and surround the north, built by Edward I to oppress the Welsh. Now, it's wonderful to note that Owain Glyndwr made his mark and controlled Wales from Harlech castle for around four years. He did gain access to that place. I applaud the work to improve accessibility to Harlech castle, but, of course, somebody was there before and controlled an independent nation for around four years or so. That was a historic moment for the men of Harlech. And of course I would hope that the Minister would be able to agree with me that being aware of this history can avoid embarrassments such as the iron ring in Flint castle last year. If you knew that Flint castle was the first to be built in that iron ring built by Edward I to kill the Welsh people in the past, you wouldn't have pursued the idea of, 'Why don't we have an iron ring, and we'll build it in Flint castle?'

Just moving on, safeguarding our historic environment certainly means safeguarding our local historic place names—the traditional place names. We've a great deal of examples, such as Cwm Cneifion becoming 'Nameless Cwm', and there are dozens of similar examples—several new English names replacing the historic Welsh names. So, does the Minister still believe that it was right to vote against my Bill to safeguard historic place names last year, and, given that we're still hearing of examples this year of losing historic names, does he have any intention of providing legal protection to safeguard our historic names? After all, rare plants are protected under law, so what about protecting our traditional names, which define us as Welsh people?

Finally—I am aware of the time—I'll turn to the Welsh places of worship forum. I'm pleased to see reference to that forum and pleased to be able to celebrate the work that the forum does. I speak as the secretary of a lively, vibrant chapel in Swansea and just to confirm that there is a rich history, as we've heard, in our chapels and our churches here in Wales as well. After all, as we heard from David, when nonconformity was at its height, one new chapel in Wales was built every 10 days in the 1880s. In that decade, one chapel was built every 10 days. It's possible to pursue the history of Christianity in Wales from the time of the Romans on by going to our old churches and then our chapels and looking at our Christian ruins. As I've already mentioned, and as you've referred to, there is excellent work being done in this field. But can I ask if the Minister can expand on this excellent work and tell us how these different plans will develop? Because it's true to say that we have been weighing up and lauding the extraordinary religious history of our nation as well. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much to Dai for those comments. May I start by saying that I make no apology for putting a picture of Capel Tegid in Bala, where my dear late mother was a deacon for many years, on that particular page? Because the nonconformist heritage and our chapel heritage is crucially important, as Dai mentioned. That's why I don't want to talk too much about that today, because my meeting with Huw Tregelles Williams is to take place in Morriston soon, and I do hope that we can put forward a specific programme in relation to these activities with the forum, that we can find some resolution, certainly for those protected historic buildings, but also for the faith heritage as part of our understanding of our history in all parts of Wales.

I do want to say a few words on the issue of place names, because what I have ensured is that the commission for ancient and historic monuments have agreed to draw up and maintain a list of historic place names on our behalf as Welsh Ministers. For me, the royal commission has proved itself, since before the 1905 reformation, to be a body that can do very important work on the cultural environment and landscape of Wales. There is a full-time curator employed to improve that list, who can respond to queries and raise awareness of the importance of historic place names. Where attempts are made to change the names of fields and places in building new commercial housing estates, as has happened not too far away from this building, then the commission is available to remind developers that there are perfectly proper Welsh names for these historic sites.

Our statutory guidance directs local authorities and national parks and NRW to give full consideration to this list, and I am pleased to say that the curator of the list has been assisting local authorities in Pembrokeshire, Caerphilly and other areas to identify appropriate historic names. Through Cadw officials, there is collaboration to develop clear relations with local authorities and a realisation that place names are just as important to those places as are personal names to people. I don’t think people have quite understood that in the past.

Now, I don’t want to rehearse the context of the age of the lords and princes and the traditions of the princes of Wales, but one of the things that Dai may recall that I have emphasised over many years is that the principality of Wales was a polity. That is, it is a beginning of a nation state, as it was devised, it seems, by Owain Gwynedd, and a different lordship was devised in the Deheubarth, with links to Lord Rhys, of course, and safeguarding these sites, and this concept of medieval devolution, is central to our history as the people of Wales. Therefore, these castles, which are the military symbol of this conflict that existed between the two polities, if we describe what belonged to the barons or the Crown and the Marcher lords and what belonged to the Welsh lords and princes—. That conflict in terms of political power, in the way that it would have happened in medieval times, is a part of what defines us as a nation—and the existence of these castles not only in Wales but across the Marches. And I am very eager for us to look at the history of Wales and the Marches as one, as they have been over centuries, rather than seeing it in the terms that we in Wales are doing one thing and people the other side, as it were, are doing something else.

So, developing collaboration between the areas of outstanding natural beauty in Wales and the national parks of Wales with areas such as the Herefordshire uplands is very important to me in order to create corridors of historic understanding along the Welsh Marches. But, again, may I emphasise that the invitation that I extended to spokespeople of the other opposition party in this place is also open to you? And I do hope that we will be able to continue with a constructive discussion about the priorities that we have put in place already as a department that has been restored to the Welsh Government.

Rare it is to see a politician of such experience throw himself into a brief with such youthful enthusiasm, which I think is what the Minister has done over the last 10 months and which has culminated in this document, although I’ve got to say that I've got a complaint to make in that Wales’s largest castle has the smallest picture in the brochure in the form of Caerphilly castle, but you would expect me to make that complaint anyway.

It’s got to be said, though, that the Minister has made up for that by visiting the castle on numerous occasions, most recently, as you’ve already mentioned, for the Dragons’ Lair and Gilbert’s Maze. I was there for the launch and I took my children along, and the Minister said in his speech that the children's faces lit up when they saw the dragon bellowing smoke. I’ve got to say that my 15-month-old daughter Holly was terrified and burst into tears, but the good news is that I took a video of the dragon and now every time she sees my mobile phone in my hand she asks to 'see dragon'—can she see a video of the dragon—so, it really, really did make an impression on her.

We need more educational sites like this, but I’ve got to say that one of the problems with Caerphilly is that, as you look away from the castle towards the street scene, the street scene could be vastly improved. I think that, to some extent—and I think the Minister’s recognised this—as much as the largest concentric castle in Europe attracts visitors, if you look across the street, some of the shape of the high street just across the road detracts a little from that, and I think further work needs to be done in that area.

I’ve already mentioned that the Minister has made so many visits to Caerphilly castle that I’ve lost count. It is good that he has therefore introduced changes to the admissions policy, which will make it easier for people to visit tourist locations such as this on their doorsteps throughout Wales. Indeed, it was one of the first things that the Minister did in office.

There’s more to Caerphilly than Caerphilly castle, of course. It’s a rite of passage that the Assembly Member for Caerphilly must mention at some point in their term Caerphilly castle and Caerphilly cheese, but there is also, of course, Llancaiach Fawr, a sixteenth-century manor house, which was derelict in the early 1980s. I’m very proud to say that my father was chair of the planning committee on Rhymney Valley District Council, which agreed the renovation and restoration of Llancaiach Fawr. And I've no doubt that the Minister will have visited there, or, if not, will have plans to visit there. Llancaiach is a wonderful place to visit but is also under threat. It’s currently council-owned, and council budgets are reduced. Also, I’d say that the other area under threat is the national mining memorial, which the Minister is due to visit next month, which commemorates the tragic 1913 Universal Colliery disaster. The committee there is not as young as they used to be, and we have concerns that the management of that committee will become more difficult as time goes by, and therefore I look forward to welcoming the Minister to meet the committee and discuss that at the memorial event to be held next month.

There’s lots to offer in Caerphilly. Ruperra castle I haven’t touched on. I think there’s an opportunity for a heritage trail there. But, within those things I’ve said, I think I’ve also demonstrated that there is still work to be done in Caerphilly, and I’m sure the Minister would therefore agree.

Thank you very much for that, and it’s been a pleasure to work with you. And, of course, you’re quite right in claiming the credit for getting us into action on the review of the local residents pass across Wales. That took place in the summer of 2017 and, as a result of that, there’s a new inclusive membership offer, which has replaced the previous pass, giving access to one named site on a regular basis, and therefore the boundary issue that you first raised with me—that we were working on previous boundaries of previous local authorities and that this was debarring people in terms of the definition of whether they were local residents or not—has been dealt with.

Now, we’ve had our issues with the silt trap and the sluice gates at Caerphilly castle over the years, and Cadw does seek to ensure that, in working with the engineers of Caerphilly County Borough Council, we ensure that we remove the silt deposits so that the moat is regularly cleared of litter and debris and so on and all that activity takes place. We have also commissioned a masterplan for Caerphilly castle that will take into account the potential of new activities in and around the monument. It is very likely that the possibility of using the moat for recreational purposes will be part of the scoping exercise there. So, I haven’t finished with Caerphilly yet, but I think that it is important that we do recognise that it is a unique site at the southern end of a Valleys community close to the capital city, and I want to make that an essential visiting site for everyone who is serious about finding out about Wales, because it's the place to go. So, I look forward to carrying on our work in Caerphilly and I'm very grateful for your support.

We have heard from every party present in the Chamber today and we have run out of time, but there's an opportunity for the final speaker to ask a swift question, please—Jayne Bryant.

Thank you for your statement, Minister. I welcome your words and your genuine enthusiasm for our historic environment. Last week, I had the great privilege of joining you on a visit to the remarkable Newport transporter bridge, one of only six bridges still operating in the world today and the best transporter bridge in the world. I know we both had the privilege of driving the gondola across the river—something that I will truly remember. Along with Newport City Council, Friends of Newport Transporter Bridge and Heritage Lottery, I fully support the campaign to help secure the future of the bridge. Opened in 1906, it's a distinctive industrial landmark and a much-loved icon on Newport's skyline. It's a symbol of our proud industrial and maritime heritage—

Could I ask you to come to the question, please?

My question is: does the Minister agree that more must be done to promote the unique heritage we have in south-east Wales, and not just to the tourists but to local residents and young people everywhere, so that they can enjoy and appreciate our historic sites?

Thank you. It was great to be in Newport. I've spent probably more time in Newport than anywhere else, apart from my own patch, in the last few months. But thank you for driving the gondola so much better than the poor Minister. This was remarked upon—I won't mention the name, but, well, you know who it is that drives the bridge. That bridge is driven; it's not just an automatic thing, it's a proper living monument. So, to me—I think I said this to you on the day—I want to promote industrial heritage as the next phase of what I try and do in my role as Minister, as long as I have this opportunity. I think I've done castles, I've done a few abbeys and now I want to do industrial heritage in a much bigger way, and the Blaenavon visit the other day, the Big Pit visit, and various things—but the transporter bridge to me, if you'll allow me to borrow it, has to be our symbol, our icon of industrial heritage and what it means to us in Wales. Thank you.

Thank you. That brings today's proceedings to a close.

The meeting ended at 16:47.